Should Edward Snowden win the Nobel Peace Prize?

joG said:

It is odd. But if the local population has been missinformed for decades and the US has been lied about in order to show how good the local society is doing, so that the US represents the rot in the world, this is believably evil. I am following it in Germany and the anti Americanism is thick and heavy.

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Wiggen said:

People who have contempt and loathing for the United States and those who serve it question it all day. In their little world, Eddie only revealed spying on the innocent and no U.S. service personnel need worry. Honest, that's how they think.

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You're posting on a forum where we have ample representation not just from the 5 or 6 German posters, but as well as Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Turks and more. Their concerns about their safety and being spied on by a foreign government are not invalidated by the fact that you have American passport and wear your raunch nationalism on your sleeves.

DA60 said:

Should Edward Snowden win the Nobel Peace Prize?

(he has been nominated, apparently)

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I don't know if he deserves a Nobel Peace prize, but I can definitely suggest a good start: how about we stop villifying a man for blowing the whistle on hilariously unconstitutional and unethical practices against its own population by the government and, if nothing else say, "Hey, Eddy....good job."

I voted no even though I support the actions of Snowden. These revelations are doing nothing to ACTUALLY stop spying by the United States. The new rhetoric is more like "we won't get caught next time". Plus, even though I hate the US governments position with Snowden as a traitor, it would still reflect poorly upon the United States if Snowden were infact to win. It would be another foreign policy blow.

DA60 said:

The question I asked in the post you quoted.

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As I said, I can not believe anyone could ask something like that in good faith.

But I'm not about to put a basic text book together for you on how information on the methods used by intelligence agencies affects crime fighting, international curruption or international security.

brothern said:

You're posting on a forum where we have ample representation not just from the 5 or 6 German posters, but as well as Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Turks and more. Their concerns about their safety and being spied on by a foreign government are not invalidated by the fact that you have American passport and wear your raunch nationalism on your sleeves.

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Maybe not. On the other hand, it would then be a good idea to protect only populations that are friendly and pay hard and soft costs for international security commensurate to the gains they derive therefrom.

Snowden did not betray his country. He exposed government surveillance programs that breached the public trust and invaded the privacy of millions. If you feel he is a traitor to the country then I think you have skewed loyalties. Vilifying a man who exposed government programs that undermine the freedom of U.S. citizens isn't logical. How can he be a traitor to the country when what he did was for the preservation of the very things that separate us from dictatorships? Too many things have been traded in the name of "national security." I'm not going to derail this thread by diving into the reality of the global terrorist threat but we, as Americans, have been bullied and fear mongered into accepting that it's okay to trade degrees of privacy and "freedom" at an uneven rate based upon the actual threat we face.

He's as good a candidate to win as many others in the past I suppose.

Chaddelamancha said:

Why not Hassan Rouhani then? Seems to me that limiting uranium enrichment and diluting Iran's stockpile goes a lot further towards peace than whistleblowing.

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Maybe...I don't know.

We will see.

joG said:

As I said, I can not believe anyone could ask something like that in good faith.

But I'm not about to put a basic text book together for you on how information on the methods used by intelligence agencies affects crime fighting, international curruption or international security.

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So, your answer is 'no'.

Good day.

The extent of "spying" on U.S. citizens is difficult to measure, but its widely acknowledged that it was much to far. The extent to which it actually endangered the lives of service men and women isn't so clear.

The argument that "what if these programs could have prevented a terrorist attack?" simply isn't valid given the trade off. They are simply much too broad. Further, the manner in which they were used to spy on other countries, friendly countries no less, has done us no good internationally. In fact it has served to undermine already tenuous relationships and made even more people think that the U.S. really only pays lip service to the ideals of freedom, democracy, and right to privacy.

I hear all the time about people complaining that this country isn't what it used to be, that Obama (or Bush or whichever President at the time) is ruining this nation. Well these programs were wolves in sheeps clothing to ideals that this country was founded on. And Americans seem to quick to abandon them in the name of fighting the "War on Terror." Which by the way serves as one of the biggest dupes in American history.

Much like the gun control lobby uses isolated incidents to ramp of furor and forward their agenda, our government used a terrible but very specific and unique incident to justify a paradigm shift in domestic policy and spend hundreds of billions of dollars. By playing on our fear and manipulating nationalism and "patriotism."

Snowden is no traitor. He's a man who did the right thing.

Cardinal said:

I don't know if he deserves a Nobel Peace prize, but I can definitely suggest a good start: how about we stop villifying a man for blowing the whistle on hilariously unconstitutional and unethical practices against its own population by the government and, if nothing else say, "Hey, Eddy....good job."

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Where it was unconstitutional his blowing the whistle might and I would repeat might be ok.

The other 90 percent of the disclosures need severe punishment.

That does not mean we do not need a robust system by which provides a secure way for government employees to intercede, when activities seem illegal. Maybe a system of encouragement could be structured along the lines the sec is implementing.

joG said:

It is odd. But if the local population has been missinformed for decades and the US has been lied about in order to show how good the local society is doing, so that the US represents the rot in the world, this is believably evil. I am following it in Germany and the anti Americanism is thick and heavy.

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Not surprising, although I think you'll find your share of the same sentiments on this forum. It's always a tough choice for them between the U.S. and Israel as to which is the most evil nation on the planet. I think we might be slightly in the lead now.

brothern said:

You're posting on a forum where we have ample representation not just from the 5 or 6 German posters, but as well as Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Turks and more. Their concerns about their safety and being spied on by a foreign government are not invalidated by the fact that you have American passport and wear your raunch nationalism on your sleeves.

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Tough Titties. Welcome to the 21st century, where your life can be ended in a split second by the scum and lowlifes that infect this planet. Ask the relatives of those fried and crushed to death on 9/11 if they wished there'd been some active spying going on.

Cardinal said:

I don't know if he deserves a Nobel Peace prize, but I can definitely suggest a good start: how about we stop villifying a man for blowing the whistle on hilariously unconstitutional and unethical practices against its own population by the government and, if nothing else say, "Hey, Eddy....good job."

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I'm sure he's getting a lot of that from his Russian friends. Probably no need for those of us that consider him a traitor to join in the stroking.

Wiggen said:

I'm sure he's getting a lot of that from his Russian friends. Probably no need for those of us that consider him a traitor to join in the stroking.

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I'm not interested in what the Russians think.

Lerxst said:

Snowden did not betray his country. He exposed government surveillance programs that breached the public trust and invaded the privacy of millions. If you feel he is a traitor to the country then I think you have skewed loyalties. Vilifying a man who exposed government programs that undermine the freedom of U.S. citizens isn't logical. How can he be a traitor to the country when what he did was for the preservation of the very things that separate us from dictatorships? Too many things have been traded in the name of "national security." I'm not going to derail this thread by diving into the reality of the global terrorist threat but we, as Americans, have been bullied and fear mongered into accepting that it's okay to trade degrees of privacy and "freedom" at an uneven rate based upon the actual threat we face.

He's as good a candidate to win as many others in the past I suppose.

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This would be a far more impressive post if he hadn't fled to one of the most dictatorial and repressive countries on the face of the earth with his little bag of goodies. A country that locks up rock and roll singers and homosexuals - yeah, I can see why Snowden went there. I'm sure they aren't at all interested in the intelligence windfall he brought with him.

Cardinal said:

I'm not interested in what the Russians think.

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Of course you aren't. You don't have to be. It's not your ass potentially on the line from the intelligence windfall he gave them. Way to see the big picture.

Wiggen said:

Of course you aren't. You don't have to be. It's not your ass potentially on the line from the intelligence windfall he gave them. Way to see the big picture.

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And has this big picture been quantified yet?

Obama won for....wait, does anyone know why Obama won one? Won one one won won juan won one.

Snowden, although committed something pretty bad under normal circumstances, he did not do it for personal gain, financial or security. IMO, he did it for the American people. He started a wave that cannot be stopped, and he brought attention to a topic that needed to be addressed with some serious legitimacy and proof of its existence, which he provided.

Years from now, he might be regarded as the person who brought down massive government privacy intrusion. I say, give it to him. Legitimize it.

MichaelJR said:

Obama won for....wait, does anyone know why Obama won one?

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Did Mr. Obama ask for the prize?
Should he have snubbed the World and turned it down?
The President has been damned if he does and damned if he doesn't from day one with the GOP/TEAs/Libertarians .

NIMBY said:

Did Mr. Obama ask for the prize?
Should he have snubbed the World and turned it down?
The President has been damned if he does and damned if he doesn't from day one with the GOP/TEAs/Libertarians .

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No, he didn't ask for it....I'm just wondering why he got one in the first place. The only thing he's done is cause more conflicts and expand NDAA and the Patriot Act.

Wiggen said:

Tough Titties. Welcome to the 21st century, where your life can be ended in a split second by the scum and lowlifes that infect this planet. Ask the relatives of those fried and crushed to death on 9/11 if they wished there'd been some active spying going on.

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There was ample forewarning for 9/11. It never should have been allowed to happen. The USA was warned by Germany, Russia, Israel, and France and those are just the foreign that warned us. Our own Intelligence Agencies had more information. If they don't give Snowden the Nobel Prize, then they should give it to Putin for preventing the burning, sacking, and looting of Syria by the Big Energy conglomerate.

NSA/Snowden continues to be an issue that crosses party lines.
Paul Libertarians and Sanders Liberals supporting the traitor.
Neo-cons in both parties squashing the Amash amendment.
Amash, who has a RINO primary in MI .

Wiggen said:

I'm sure he's getting a lot of that from his Russian friends. Probably no need for those of us that consider him a traitor to join in the stroking.

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Wiggen said:

This would be a far more impressive post if he hadn't fled to one of the most dictatorial and repressive countries on the face of the earth with his little bag of goodies. A country that locks up rock and roll singers and homosexuals - yeah, I can see why Snowden went there. I'm sure they aren't at all interested in the intelligence windfall he brought with him.

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Snowden has repeatedly stated that he has no info with him because he turned it all over to selected trustworthy journalists or News Agencies. Next you'll want to believe he has read all 1.7 million files. Use your friggin' head or buy a hat.

MichaelJR said:

No, he didn't ask for it....I'm just wondering why he got one in the first place.

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Why don't you find out then instead of shooting the messenger?

The only thing he's done is cause more conflicts and expand NDAA and the Patriot Act.

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And then you go into a tirade on the President doing his job, one that is always overlapped with the previous POTUS.
With no blame to Bush-43, who overlapped with Clinton and so on .

DaveFagan said:

Snowden has repeatedly stated that he has no info with him because he turned it all over to selected trustworthy journalists or News Agencies.

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And you believe him?

Next you'll want to believe he has read all 1.7 million files.

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Who has these files again?