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Do you support school choice?

Do you support school choice?

  • Total voters
    88
rabbitcaebannog said:
They don't all bail. Public schools still have to pay for the costs of transporting those who stay but with a smaller pool of money. That means something will have to be cut from the general education budget that could have gone toward learning. Same goes with such things as heating a building. You still have to heat the building but with less money. They don't stop heating if the funds are depleted but pull from something that could have gone toward learning.
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Transporting less students costs less money. Heating fewer rooms costs less money. Feeding fewer kids costs less money, etc, etc.
 
Hard Truth said:
Only some of the costs and it would take years to make the required changes. Also the public schools would lose state and federal matching funds that are paid to school districts on a per-student basis.
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No, most of the costs would be reduced.
 
MoSurveyor said:
That's not what I've been talking about. I think you have me confused with someone else in this discussion. But to address your comment in relation to what I have been discussing ...


There's a big difference between "special needs and learning disabled students" (in the non-PC vernacular, "handicapped" or "suffering from a specific disease or other physical condition") and students that have (psychological) behavioral problems and/or no home support to speak of. It's the latter problems I see as the major issue in our inner-city schools and it's a social issue that no school can resolve. Pretending that vouchers "will make things all better" for the majority, or even a large minority, of students is BS.
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A specialized school would be specialized to the need, whatever that need is. Be it learning disability or little a$$holes. There'd be a specialized school for it if there is a market for it.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Assuming it's not just a typo that *some* people use as an attack on intelligence. I'm sure those same people have 60 WPM, 0 error typing skills. :roll:
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You're a little late.
 
Hard Truth said:
Establishing charter schools does not require vouchers.
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:agree: Charter schools have been around for years in Ohio; the voucher system is fairly new here. I think Wisconsin established one of the first voucher programs in the country, and several other states have followed.

Greetings, Hard Truth. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
:agree: Charter schools have been around for years in Ohio; the voucher system is fairly new here. I think Wisconsin established one of the first voucher programs in the country, and several other states have followed.

Greetings, Hard Truth. :2wave:
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Good evening, Polgara.:2wave:

I hope you have an enjoyable weekend ahead.:peace
 
mac said:
Transporting less students costs less money. Heating fewer rooms costs less money. Feeding fewer kids costs less money, etc, etc.
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Um, no not necessarily. Gas is a major costs when transporting children and buses still have to travel the same areas which costs the same in gas but with fewer dollars to cover the costs. You may only have 15 kids vs. 25 going to the same area. Also, heating costs stay the same whether you have 20 kids in a class or 30. Again, you just have less dollars to cover that costs.
 
Jack Hays said:
Good evening, Polgara.:2wave:

I hope you have an enjoyable weekend ahead.:peace
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:thanks: It wouldn't upset me at all if it were a bit warmer here...40 or 50 degrees warmer might do for a start! It's even too cold to go tobogganing, and while we've certainly got the snow, who wants to venture out? Not me! I'm staying indoors! :mrgreen:

Good evening, Jack. :2wave:
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Um, no not necessarily. Gas is a major costs when transporting children and buses still have to travel the same areas which costs the same in gas but with fewer dollars to cover the costs. You may only have 15 kids vs. 25 going to the same area. Also, heating costs stay the same whether you have 20 kids in a class or 30. Again, you just have less dollars to cover that costs.
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less kids, less buses...smaller buses...less cost. If you can cut the size of the school in half, the heating costs are cut. Seriously, economics ain't your thang is it?
 
mac said:
less kids, less buses...smaller buses...less cost. If you can cut the size of the school in half, the heating costs are cut. Seriously, economics ain't your thang is it?
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No, obviously it's not your thang since I already explained that gas is the big costs and even if you are not dropping off large numbers at a stop, as long as the bus still has to drop off some....the same costs in gas applies.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
No, obviously it's not your thang since I already explained that gas is the big costs and even if you are not dropping off large numbers at a stop, as long as the bus still has to drop off some....the same costs in gas applies.
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wait.....so who is on the bus?
 
SFCRED said:
wait.....so who is on the bus?
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It's not an "all or nothing" debate. A bus still has to travel to many of the same stops which takes gas even if some kids are no longer riding the bus and less kids are getting off at those stops.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
No, obviously it's not your thang since I already explained that gas is the big costs and even if you are not dropping off large numbers at a stop, as long as the bus still has to drop off some....the same costs in gas applies.
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...Not if the bus is smaller, and less buses run...

Try to keep up.
 
mac said:
...Not if the bus is smaller, and less buses run...

Try to keep up.
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A mini bus can hold up to 20 people. Our school district uses them in the summer when they transport 50 students to the summer school program. If your school system is housing more than 500 students a mini bus isn't a viable solution. Even if our school system lost up to, let's go with 100 students, mini buses are not going to be used instead of regular size buses unless the school system plans on using many more small buses than fewer large. That's not a savings.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
A mini bus can hold up to 20 people. Our school district uses them in the summer when they transport 50 students to the summer school program. If your school system is housing more than 500 students a mini bus isn't a viable solution. Even if our school system lost up to, let's go with 100 students, mini buses are not going to be used instead of regular size buses unless the school system plans on using many more small buses than fewer large. That's not a savings.
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Poorly performing schools, which take the lions share of funding, are going to lose a far higher percentage of students when parents get the choice to send them elsewhere, I guarantee it. Schools that perform well will lose very few students, so few that the argument is moot.
 
mac said:
Poorly performing schools, which take the lions share of funding, are going to lose a far higher percentage of students when parents get the choice to send them elsewhere, I guarantee it. Schools that perform well will lose very few students, so few that the argument is moot.
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Poor performing schools take the lion share of money? Not in my area. Wealthy schools are funded nearly double of poorer schools, but they also perform MUCH better. The big question is why?
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Poor performing schools take the lion share of money? Not in my area. Wealthy schools are funded nearly double of poorer schools, but they also perform MUCH better. The big question is why?
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I think you're mistaken.
 
jamesrage said:
Do you support school choice?

Yes
Yes but with certain exceptions. Please list those exceptions.
no, students should only go to schools in their public school district.
other
maybe


School choice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Open enrollment

Open enrollment refers to educational policies which allow residents of a state to enroll their children in any public school, provided the school has not reached its maximum capacity number for students, regardless of the school district in which a family resides.
Open enrollment can be either intra-district or inter-district. Intra-district choice allows parents to send their children to any school within their designated district. Parents can enroll their children in schools outside of their catchment area. Inter-district school choice allows parents to select public schools outside of their resident district.[SUP][1][/SUP]
Inequality of Open Enrollment

An open enrollment policy allows parents to choose the school they want their children to attend from any of the schools in their area, provided there is space for them. This definition gives the impression that everyone has an equal opportunity to choose a school, but the reality of such equality has been called into question.[SUP][2][/SUP] For example, in rural areas the option of taking advantage of open enrollment is greatly diminished because of limited access to alternate schools.


Vouchers

Main article: School voucher
When the government pays tuition to a private school on behalf of the parents, this is usually referred to as a voucher. A voucher is given to the family for them to spend at any school of their choice for their child's study. The two most common voucher designs are universal vouchers and means-tested vouchers. Means-tested vouchers are directed towards low-income families and constitute the bulk of voucher plans in the United States.
Tuition tax credits

A tuition tax credit is similar to most other familiar tax credits. Certain states allow individuals and/or businesses to deduct a certain amount of their income taxes to donate to education. Depending on the program, these donations can either go to a public school or to a School Tuition Organization (STO), or both. The donations that go to public schools are often used to help pay for after-school programs, schools trips, or school supplies. The donations that go to School Tuition Organizations are used by the STO to create scholarships that are then given to students. These programs currently exist in Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island in the United States.[SUP][8][/SUP]
Charter schools

Main article: Charter school
Charter schools are public schools with more relaxed rules and regulations. These relaxed rules tend to deal with things like Teacher Union contracts and state curriculum. The majority of states (and the District of Columbia) have charter school laws. Minnesota was the first state to have a charter school law and the first charter school in the United States, City Academy High School, opened in St. Paul, Minnesota in 1992.[SUP][9][/SUP]
Dayton, Ohio has between 22–26% of all children in charter schools.[SUP][10][/SUP] This is the highest percentage in the nation. Other hotbeds for charter schools are Kansas City (24%), Washington, D.C. (20-24%) and Arizona. Almost 1 in 4 public schools in Arizona are charter schools, comprising about 8% of total enrollment.
Charter schools can also come in the form of Cyber Charters. Cyber charter schools deliver the majority of their instruction over the internet instead of in a school building. And, like charter schools, they are public schools, but free of many of the rules and regulations that public schools must follow.
Magnet schools

Main article: Magnet school
Magnet schools are public schools that often have a specialized function like science, technology or art. These magnet schools, unlike charter schools, are not open to all children. Much like many private schools, there are some (but not all) magnet schools that require a test to get in.
Home schooling

Main article: Homeschooling
"Home education" or "home schooling" is instruction in a child's home, or provided primarily by a parent, or under direct parental control. Informal home education has always taken place, and formal instruction in the home has at times also been very popular. As public education grew in popularity during the 1900s, however, the number of people educated at home using a planned curriculum dropped. In the last 20 years, in contrast, the number of children being formally educated at home has grown tremendously, in particular in the United States. The laws relevant to home education differ throughout the country. In some states the parent simply needs to notify the state that the child will be educated at home. In other states the parents are not free to educate at home unless at least one parent is a certified teacher and yearly progress reports are reviewed by the state. Such laws are not always enforced however. According to the federal government, about 1.1 million children were home educated in 2003.[SUP][11][/SUP]




I do support school choice.The future of our kids is more important than any job security of any teacher. We can not wait until they fix **** at the local level while our children's education suffers because unions do not want to allow us to easily fire bad teachers or reform their teaching programs. Plus the tax dollars used to educate that child should follow that child regardless if that child goes to a public school,charter school or a voucher for a private school.
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I support choice as far as charter schools and private schools, but I don't know how I feel about allowing people to send their children to public schools outside of their districts because I don't know what effects that would have. Would some schools have to shut down because they don't have enough students/attendance. I would really like to see the inner city schools evaluated and problems fixed.

I think there are teachers that aren't very good out there, but a lot of the teachers who teach in inner city schools are dedicated and good teachers, they just have to deal with the roughest bunch of students.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
BS. One of the wealthiest communities in MA is Weston, MA. They spend around $20,000 per child while Taunton (a poor town) spends nearly half that amount.
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Taunton's school expenditures are $91m a year to Weston's $47m a year. :shrug:

bs right back at ya.
 
mac said:
Poorly performing schools, which take the lions share of funding, are going to lose a far higher percentage of students when parents get the choice to send them elsewhere, I guarantee it. Schools that perform well will lose very few students, so few that the argument is moot.
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Most public schools are funded by local property taxes. When the local residents are rich, property values are higher and the locals approve higher taxes to improve the schools, the schools receive more money. When the residents are poor, property values lower, the population density higher and the locals don't support (or can't afford) higher taxes to improve the schools, the schools receive less money. That is one of the major problems with public education and it is one that few people want to address; the schools in low income areas have the most challenging student, yet they are underfunded and can not attract the best teachers because the pay is lower and the work more difficult. Vouchers do not address that fundamental problem, they will make it worse by taking more money from already underfunded and over burdened schools and give it to the best funded schools with the easiest students and most supportive parents.
 
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