Yes whether we have children or not, it is the duty of all to pay taxes to provide an education for the children because we as a society are the beneficiaries. However, after paying those taxes and your child is not receiving an adequate education, what is a parent's recourse? After the State takes your tax dollars, if it can not provide for your child a school where he/she can grow and thrive, then they owe it to the child to provide one that will. Here in Ohio we have 5 state funded scholarship programs that help families who are eligible to send their children to a participating private or public school of their choice. There are all types of schools enrolled in the program to best meet each student's needs. Whether the problem for your child be a safety issue, a learning disability, or poor performing public school, the parent has school choice in Ohio.
At the very least, the great majority of states do. Those that don't, if any, would be rare exceptions.
My argument was based on suburban schools. With the exception of "elite" private schools, most private schools operate at 75% of the cost public schools pay per student. In my predominantly white, middle to upper class, county, the average tuition is $8000 while the average public school expense per student is $13,000.
That sounds really honorable but the "hard truth" is autistic kids most often have reinforcement at home. It takes teachers/parents and students who are willing to work together. I have several friends who are teachers. What I am getting from them is the lack of parental involvement in their student's life. They tell me they send out parent teacher conferences only to sit there all evening and have but a couple of parents show up for their meeting. Then they call the no shows personally and ask for another chance to speak with them about their child's progress and relay issues that the parents need to address with their children and it goes nowhere. Often the only time they hear from these parents is after the problem has gotten out of control and the child either ends up in detention or suspended. Then the parents manage to drag their arses into the school to bitch about the kid getting suspended. Your way of providing all these special services because the kids have jerks for parents, many are already in place and leaving those who actually still pay taxes a heavier burden to carry to pay for them. There is no way to rescue every child but those that you can by offering them another choice in school that they attend, should be paramount.
while i appreciate that you have seized on THE major barrier to a good education for all students, that so many tend to reside in unsupportive environments, i do not see that you have addressed the problemI don't disagree that parents, neighborhood and culture are among the reasons why children fail in school. That is a reality that schools need to address with work on the kids behavior, longer school days, longer school years, more and better pre-school access and other measures. It costs the same to send somneone to Harvard as it cost to keep them in prison. The USA imprisons a larger portion of its population than any other nation in the history of the world. We can educate virtually every child effectively if we change our priorities from dealing with the results of failed education to preventing educational failure.
...However, after paying those taxes and your child is not receiving an adequate education, what is a parent's recourse? ....
while i appreciate that you have seized on THE major barrier to a good education for all students, that so many tend to reside in unsupportive environments, i do not see that you have addressed the problem
longer school days, longer school year, better pre-school speak to the symptoms and not the underlying problem. those ill disciplined kids return to their unsupportive homes every night and weekend. and then return to the school room as undisciplined as when they left the previous school day
while i appreciate that you have seized on THE major barrier to a good education for all students, that so many tend to reside in unsupportive environments, i do not see that you have addressed the problem
longer school days, longer school year, better pre-school speak to the symptoms and not the underlying problem. those ill disciplined kids return to their unsupportive homes every night and weekend. and then return to the school room as undisciplined as when they left the previous school day
Really?
NCSPE: National Center for the Study of Privatization in Education, Teachers College, Columbia University
NCSPE: Funding
NCSPE: Advisory Board
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Newman_(educator)
NCSPE: Team
I suspect you don't like it's message, which makes you blind and/or prejudice - but you're more than welcome to attempt to prove your unfounded claim.
Since I made no evaluation of its message since I know next to nothing about the organization, its pretty hard to be either blind or prejudiced about it. I do know something about the NEA, however--I have experienced that first hand, up close, and personal--and therefore my suspicion that an organization they would partner with is likely their own extension is not unwarranted or unfounded. Upon a bit of further research I can accept that that NCSPE is not affiliated with the NEA but published a paper favorable to the point of view promoted by the NEA. I don't know enough about the NCSPE to know if they actually do have a sociopolitical agenda and what, if they do, that might be.
I do know that the paper/study cited simply doesn't jive with the research I've seen from others. If that makes me blind and prejudiced, so be it.
You never cited any 'research'. I'm still waiting.
But I did post a case history of an actual voucher system in operation that doesn't fit with the study you cited. And I mentioned our own experience with charter schools, all voluntary, in our own school system here which is one of the largest districts in the country. I haven't posted links to studies I've read because I simply don't care enough to go hunt them up again if they are even on the internet. I concede that the study you linked strongly criticizes school choice. Again my own experience and what I have read doesn't support the opinion of the author or authors of that study. But then, just because somebody publishes something is not particularly convincing to me. And I have my reasons for that point of view too.
That's because they can choose how many special needs children they want to accept. Special education costs can be highly expensive. If they were mandated to accept all special needs children, AND they were required by IDEA to apply that law, you would see those costs rise too. Picking what they want to take on is rather unfair.
There is no reason to believe that there would not arise schools tailored to their specific needs and therefore more efficient.
There is no reason to believe that there would not arise schools tailored to their specific needs and therefore more efficient.
but many of the parents of those special needs kids do not want them in enclaves with other special needs kids
they want them with 'regular' students in 'regular' schools, to 'mainstream' them
why would a FOR PROFIT school allow students who are much more expensive to educate, attend at the same voucher value as a student who did not need extraordinary and expensive resources, if they are allowed to exclude such special needs/high cost students [as is the circumstance today]
AlbqOwl, I've no problem with the fact that they raised the additional funds rather than raid funds from other students that attend public schools. In fact, I applaud it. Unfortunately, the problem is that is not the norm. That is a problem. I've no problem speaking out against it because it's depleting funds from the schools that need it the most. That is just one of the reasons classroom teachers are left with fewer and fewer resources to help the most needy students. Also, are you speaking about a district or school? I see school but perhaps, you could show me more.
And I have no problem with debating the issue. I have a HUGE problem when dishonest tactics are used to sell something though, no matter what it is. And the NEA has been exceedingly dishonest in their own self-serving intent to prevent any form of privatizing the schools or reducing federal powers over those schools. The NEA's goal is to protect all their dues paying teachers whether or not they actually teach kids.
My goal, as is all others who promote school choice, is to educate children. All you have to do is look at the track record of the schools receiving maximum government funding to see that funding is not the problem. Some of those are the most poorly performing.
And when you look at the impressive record of the home schooled, parochial schooled, private schooled, and charter schooled kids, even with the poorest and most disadvantaged kids, compared to the average public school, any thinking person has to admit that many if not most public schools just aren't getting the job done as well as it can be done.
I am old enough to remember when it was the local community that funded the schools and the state and federal government had little or nothing to do with them. And raising funds for projects not covered by school taxes was the norm, not something unusual. Not something that should be discouraged. But if you read the story I posted you will see that the costs of providing a better education with the voucher program was about half that when the government dictates it all. You got caught up with the idea that they fell a bit short and had to raise some money to cover expenses. And you missed the success story that was there to see.
please share with us those positions the NEA has taken which are intended to protect their dues paying member teachersAnd I have no problem with debating the issue. I have a HUGE problem when dishonest tactics are used to sell something though, no matter what it is. And the NEA has been exceedingly dishonest in their own self-serving intent to prevent any form of privatizing the schools or reducing federal powers over those schools. The NEA's goal is to protect all their dues paying teachers whether or not they actually teach kids.
but are those well funded schools spending their money educating kids or doing other thingsMy goal, as is all others who promote school choice, is to educate children. All you have to do is look at the track record of the schools receiving maximum government funding to see that funding is not the problem. Some of those are the most poorly performing.
this is so wrong. jesuit operated schools tend to have the best results. Christian schools tend to have the worst (especially those operated by the southern baptist church). some charter schools are excellent. they frequently have cherry picked from among the available students in their community. home schooled kids are all over the place. some do well, others are weak. they tend to have difficulty adjusting to a college environment once they leave home. but once adjusted for having to teach all students, including the trouble makers and those with special needs, the average public school performs at least as well as its average alterative counterpartsAnd when you look at the impressive record of the home schooled, parochial schooled, private schooled, and charter schooled kids, even with the poorest and most disadvantaged kids, compared to the average public school, any thinking person has to admit that many if not most public schools just aren't getting the job done as well as it can be done.
and i am old enough to remember when schools were segregated. when black schools received the old books and supplies left over when the white schools got new teaching materialsI am old enough to remember when it was the local community that funded the schools and the state and federal government had little or nothing to do with them. And raising funds for projects not covered by school taxes was the norm, not something unusual. Not something that should be discouraged. But if you read the story I posted you will see that the costs of providing a better education with the voucher program was about half that when the government dictates it all. You got caught up with the idea that they fell a bit short and had to raise some money to cover expenses. And you missed the success story that was there to see.
I'm well aware of funding sources for my district and how our state divides the funds it sends to schools. My school taxes support my school district and my district alone. The basic formula for state funds includes the number of students per day attending, so the district with more students will get more state money in comparable economic areas. If your school funding is different then you have a very strange method of taxation and funding where you live.Actually you have to pay for every school. The money goes into a big pool on the various levels and then gets spread out. So a district that has more people in it than it's neighbor might not get more money, nor will one school with more students necessarily get more money (in comparable economic areas).
At the very least, the great majority of states do. Those that don't, if any, would be rare exceptions.
Home Schooling Topics and ResourcesHome Schooling Topics and Resources
These resources are provided as a convenience and a service for those seeking information about home schooling. References to agencies or organizations outside the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education DO NOT constitute our endorsement.
Accreditation
The Missouri State Board of Education and the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education do not have authority to regulate private or home schools. There is no program for the inspection, approval, or accreditation of home schools in Missouri.
Curriculum/Textbooks
Missouri does not have a statewide-adopted school curriculum nor is there a state-approved textbook listing. The selection of instructional materials is the responsibility of parents who home school their children. Missouri public, private, and home schooled students have the option to take online courses through the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education's Virtual Instruction Program (MoVIP).
Diplomas
There is no state recognized high school diploma for home schooled students. Home schooled students may take the high school equivalency examination to obtain a high school equivalency certificate.
You keep interchanging tuition and operating cost but they're not usually synonymous in private schools. For example, it's a well known fact that Catholic schools are highly subsidized by the Church, so comparing Catholic school tuition to public school cost, instead of comparing Catholic school cost to public school cost, isn't a valid comparison. You really need to make sure the Catholic church is willing to subsidize millions and millions of non-Catholic children before you use their tuition rates as "cost". The same applies to virtually all private schools in America. I think you'll find most of them are supported through other means than just tuition, so to use private school tuition statistics you would need the consent of all contributors and philanthropists that donate to private schools. Good luck getting that because I'd bet they're not willing.My argument was based on suburban schools. With the exception of "elite" private schools, most private schools operate at 75% of the cost public schools pay per student. In my predominantly white, middle to upper class, county, the average tuition is $8000 while the average public school expense per student is $13,000.
You keep interchanging tuition and operating cost but they're not usually synonymous in private schools. For example, it's a well known fact that Catholic schools are highly subsidized by the Church, so comparing Catholic school tuition to public school cost, instead of comparing Catholic school cost to public school cost, isn't a valid comparison. You really need to make sure the Catholic church is willing to subsidize millions and millions of non-Catholic children before you use their tuition rates as "cost". The same applies to virtually all private schools in America. I think you'll find most of them are supported through other means than just tuition, so to use private school tuition statistics you would need the consent of all contributors and philanthropists that donate to private schools. Good luck getting that because I'd bet they're not willing.
I would also note your private school "tuition" most likely does not include transportation costs.