View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

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  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    there is NOT ONE parent who is required to send their child to a private school instead of a public one
    the parent chooses to pay twice
    They choose to pay once, they are forced to pay twice.

  2. #82
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I would agree that schools should do a better job preparing some kids for skilled vocations. However, private schools are certainly no better in that regard and are in most cases much worse. How many private schools out there have an AG program, or Shop? I can't think of a one. The vast majority of private schools are either college prep, or fundamentalist.
    Because there is currently very little demand for private K-12 schools does not mean, that if vouchers were a reality, that an expanded private market would not quickly develop offering all sorts of educational options. The current standardized tests measure mainly two subjects, math and English, yet employers want (and students need) many other skills.

    One option, that I don't see discussed much, would be a "standard" K-6 school and then a 1/2 day Jr./Sr. HS program teaching only math and English allowing for a 1/2 day of either taking additional college prep, arts, science, computer, agricultural, sports or trade classes at another facility (public or private). It does not take college to be a very successful tradesman, retailer, cook or even a computer programmer but it does take specialized training, possibly even including some sort of cooperative partnership with an employer.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #83
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    They choose to pay once, they are forced to pay twice.
    nope
    with their taxes, they have paid for their child's enrollment in public school
    should they CHOOSE to pass on exercising that option then they have CHOSEN to pay twice
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  4. #84
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    with their taxes, they have paid for their child's enrollment in public school
    Which is not a choice.

  5. #85
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, I am absolutely in favor of school choice. Choice is good.
    Fifteen years ago, the people behind the charter school movement had one message that they put forth to parents and the community: our school do a better job at educating students. Then several years went by and their kids took the test and guess what we found out over and over and over again? Not so much if at all do they do a better job than the public schools. Sure, you can cherry pick a few schools or students and paint that picture if you are intellectually dishonest. But pretty much over all the results were no different than public schools. In fact, some of the fast buck shysters that went into the charter business actually underperformed compared to public schools.

    I distinctly remember in the Fall of 2010 going to a south eastern Michigan meeting for charter schools for newly elected members of the Michigan legislature or - like me - their chief of staff. Having been away from education for six years I was struck by all the literature and speakers for charter schools having had changed their message in the intervening years. It was no longer - we can do it better, Now they had a new message:


    CHOICE IS GOOD.

    So ask yourself, why were we promised one bill of goods and then the charter industry engaged in a blatant bait and switch and went to a different bill of goods?

    Answer that honestly and it tells you a great deal about the political motivations behind the charter industry.
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  6. #86
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    None of course, consent does not exist within a state.
    Then what is your point? It seems to me that you don't like reality, so you throw some fantasy world out there and try to get people to debate you on it.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Fifteen years ago, the people behind the charter school movement had one message that they put forth to parents and the community: our school do a better job at educating students. Then several years went by and their kids took the test and guess what we found out over and over and over again? Not so much if at all do they do a better job than the public schools. Sure, you can cherry pick a few schools or students and paint that picture if you are intellectually dishonest. But pretty much over all the results were no different than public schools. In fact, some of the fast buck shysters that went into the charter business actually underperformed compared to public schools.

    I distinctly remember in the Fall of 2010 going to a south eastern Michigan meeting for charter schools for newly elected members of the Michigan legislature or - like me - their chief of staff. Having been away from education for six years I was struck by all the literature and speakers for charter schools having had changed their message in the intervening years. It was no longer - we can do it better, Now they had a new message:

    CHOICE IS GOOD.

    So ask yourself, why were we promised one bill of goods and then the charter industry engaged in a blatant bait and switch and went to a different bill of goods?

    Answer that honestly and it tells you a great deal about the political motivations behind the charter industry.
    I'm not sure of your message here.

    You seem to be objecting to the idea that choice is good and instead saying that lack of choice is good, which seems an absurd position to take.

    My stance, and the stance taken by nearly all economists, is that when firms are required to compete with other firms for customers, quality rises and prices fall. I am in favor of affordable, quality education, so I want to see schools working hard to provide better education for a lower price.

  8. #88
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I'm not sure of your message here.

    You seem to be objecting to the idea that choice is good and instead saying that lack of choice is good, which seems an absurd position to take.

    My stance, and the stance taken by nearly all economists, is that when firms are required to compete with other firms for customers, quality rises and prices fall. I am in favor of affordable, quality education, so I want to see schools working hard to provide better education for a lower price.
    Schools already do that. Communities compete against each other for residents based on the quality of their public school system.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I suppose all but vouchers to religious church rule schools. That should not be paid by tax dollars nor a basis for tax deference or avoidance.
    I disagree. The military and even Congress have chaplains. The GI Bill and Pell grant are used for faith based education at the discretion of the student. Universities like Baylor, Southern Methodist, Notre Dame, etc. have students right now who finance their education with assistance from Uncle Sam. Even Harvard is technical a Faith Based institution. In these cases, the STUDENTS are technically the recipients of the government funding, not the schools, which is how School Choice works.

    If, however for some odd and ill advised reason schools and not students become the direct recipient of government funding for school choice education, there are ways that it can be done that will comply with the law based on the Faith Based Initiative model where churches get government funding for all sorts of things from after school care, tutoring, anti-poverty programs, 12 step programs, etc. provided they follow some simple guidelines.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Schools already do that. Communities compete against each other for residents based on the quality of their public school system.
    Yes they do, which is a result of socialized schools. I would prefer a system that allowed multiple competing firms within the same community, rather than a single socialized firm.

    I can't help but see public schools in the same way that I would look at public shoe dispensaries, public automobile dispensaries, and public grocery dispensaries.

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