View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

Voters
102. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
Page 45 of 65 FirstFirst ... 35434445464755 ... LastLast
Results 441 to 450 of 643

Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #441
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Well, good luck with that.
    Don't need luck, already have reality. Thanks.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  2. #442
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The tuition is $XX....that's what the voucher would pay. The schools fundraise to pay for extras and improvements. And, as you indicated, fundraising engenders parental involvement. Now, there is also fundraising in public schools...
    Public schools may do some fund raising for extras but they don't do it for the everyday business of running the school. Private schools are not that way at all. Most private schools get basic educational funding (not just for "extras") from private sources. Comparing private tuition rates to public expense per student is dishonest unless you can guarantee those private donations will continue at the same level, which you can't do.


    And, once again, your tuition doesn't include transportation costs as public expenses do.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  3. #443
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Again, it doesn't matter if they do. The tuition is $XX and that's what the voucher is applied to.
    Of course it matters. If the donations don't keep up with the huge influx of students - and they won't - then tuition must rise. Again, comparing private tuition to public expenses is a dishonest comparison.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #444
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,925
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "Look who’s deploying some of his considerable financial clout to influence who we Hoosiers elect as superintendent of public instruction this fall. It’s billionaire New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who donated $40,000 last month to the re-election campaign of Republican Superintendent Tony Bennett.

    Bloomberg, as mayor, has championed some of the same policies that Bennett has pushed in Indiana: more charter schools, test-based evaluations of teachers, etc. But it’s not like Bennett needs the money. He’s sitting on more than a half million dollars, and there’s no way his Democratic opponent, Glenda Ritz, will ever come close to that.

    Ritz, an elementary school teacher in Washington Township schools on the north side of Indianapolis, did get $30,000 last month from the political action committee of the Indiana State Teachers Association. Well, it’s a start.

    Bennett, meanwhile, got June campaign contributions of $25,000 from Merrillville hotel developer Dean White, $50,000 from charter school founder Christel DeHaan and $25,000 from Gov. Mitch Daniels’ Aiming Higher PAC.

    On June 29, the same day he recorded the Bloomberg donation, Bennett also got $25,000 from Hoosiers for Economic Growth. As School Matters reported previously, the money behind HEG doesn’t come from Hoosiers and it has nothing to do with economic growth. HEG gets most of its funding, including all $275,000 it reported receiving this year, from the American Federation for Children, a school-voucher advocacy organization headed by Michigan conservative activist Betsy DeVos.

    Much of AFC’s money – including $1.2 million in early 2012 – has come from three investment managers affiliated with Philadelphia firm Susquehanna International Group, Joel Greenberg, Arthur Dantchik and Jeff Yass, according to the organization’s Indiana campaign finance reports. In previous years, AFC got more than $1.5 million from Alice Walton, whose family owns Wal-Mart, and $1 million from New York hedge-fund manager Julian Robertson.

    Strange, isn’t it? These people hand out six-figure checks like candy at a Fourth of July parade.

    AFC in turn has bankrolled pro-voucher organizations in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Indiana. In 2010, Hoosiers for Economic Growth funneled its share into the campaigns of Republican legislative candidates. Republicans took full control of the Statehouse and delivered for their supporters by approving in 2011 what was then the most extensive school voucher program in the country."
    Bloomberg, voucher advocates putting up money for Bennett | School Matters
    My question was not about who is funding what, however.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #445
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,925
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Public schools may do some fund raising for extras but they don't do it for the everyday business of running the school. Private schools are not that way at all. Most private schools get basic educational funding (not just for "extras") from private sources. Comparing private tuition rates to public expense per student is dishonest unless you can guarantee those private donations will continue at the same level, which you can't do.


    And, once again, your tuition doesn't include transportation costs as public expenses do.
    Well if public schools aren't managing the money to fund the schools adequately when they are spending considerably more per capita than are the charter, most parochial and private schools, that certainly isn't a good argument for keeping the money with them is it? Most especially those who do a crappy job of educating kids. Let the money follow the child and you'll see education improve in a huge big hurry. Including in many of the currently failing schools who will up their game and do a better job to keep that money flowing their way.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #446
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well if public schools aren't managing the money to fund the schools adequately when they are spending considerably more per capita than are the charter, most parochial and private schools, that certainly isn't a good argument for keeping the money with them is it?
    You don't know how much those private schools are spending, that's the whole point, and in those rare cases when you've got an actual, published budget it doesn't include things like transportation, which is included in the costs for public schools. You want people to believe tuition alone is covering the actual cost of private school education but that's a lie made up to advance your cause.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Most especially those who do a crappy job of educating kids. Let the money follow the child and you'll see education improve in a huge big hurry. Including in many of the currently failing schools who will up their game and do a better job to keep that money flowing their way.
    I have as yet to see a private school forced to accept every student that applies, so your assumptions are based on crap statistics. What becomes of all the kids that aren't accepted to non-public schools? Who pays for them and what education, if any, will they get? You never discuss them, you just rattle on about metrics based on crap statistics and dishonesty.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-04-14 at 04:52 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #447
    Sage
    mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    DC Metro
    Last Seen
    11-13-16 @ 12:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    22,499

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Public schools may do some fund raising for extras but they don't do it for the everyday business of running the school. Private schools are not that way at all. Most private schools get basic educational funding (not just for "extras") from private sources. Comparing private tuition rates to public expense per student is dishonest unless you can guarantee those private donations will continue at the same level, which you can't do.


    And, once again, your tuition doesn't include transportation costs as public expenses do.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Of course it matters. If the donations don't keep up with the huge influx of students - and they won't - then tuition must rise. Again, comparing private tuition to public expenses is a dishonest comparison.
    It's not dishonest at all. No school is going to accept students beyond its capacity, so there is no great influx of students to existing schools, what's more likely to happen is that new private institutions will arise, and they will be no more affected than present ones.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #448
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's not dishonest at all. No school is going to accept students beyond its capacity, so there is no great influx of students to existing schools, what's more likely to happen is that new private institutions will arise, and they will be no more affected than present ones.
    There's only so much charity money to go around. If new schools do arise, and have no donations or charity funding, then their tuition will be much higher since their tuition would have to cover all of the costs of the school, not just what the donations and charity funding doesn't pay.


    So,again, comparing private school tuition to public cost per student is dishonest.

    And the tuition for private schools doesn't include transportation like public school costs do, another bit of deception in the comparisons.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-04-14 at 08:54 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #449
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,925
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You don't know how much those private schools are spending, that's the whole point, and in those rare cases when you've got an actual, published budget it doesn't include things like transportation, which is included in the costs for public schools. You want people to believe tuition alone is covering the actual cost of private school education but that's a lie made up to advance your cause.


    I have as yet to see a private school forced to accept every student that applies, so your assumptions are based on crap statistics. What becomes of all the kids that aren't accepted to non-public schools? Who pays for them and what education, if any, will they get? You never discuss them, you just rattle on about metrics based on crap statistics and dishonesty.
    All I know is that the USA is 4th in the world in per capita spending on public education and is waaaaaaaaay down on the list of the effectiveness of that education. And it is usually the most heavily funded public schools that are doing the worst. Washington DC is a prime example. If there isn't room in a private school, that many parents could not afford even with a voucher system, with school choice at least the lower income family could get a kid out of a failing school into a better public school. And again, the people running the failing school don't want to lose their jobs if all their kids start bailing out and leaving them. So that could be a really strong incentive for them to clean up their act, start doing a better job, and keeping the local kids home.

    What good parent would not choose a good local school near home rather than going through the headache of transporting their kids to a distant school, if the kids could get just as good an education in the neighborhood school?

    But the failing school has no incentive to get better if it receives its full funding and the administration and teachers get paid whether they educate the kids or not.

    We need to stop rewarding failing schools with more and more funding, and we need to reward good ones and encourage failing schools to become good ones. A voucher system/school choice is the most reasonable way to accomplish that.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 02-04-14 at 12:11 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #450
    Guru
    HonestJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,559

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But the failing school has no incentive to get better if it receives its full funding and the administration and teachers get paid whether they educate the kids or not.

    We need to stop rewarding failing schools with more and more funding, and we need to reward good ones and encourage failing schools to become good ones. A voucher system/school choice is the most reasonable way to accomplish that.
    The flaw in this is thinking it's all about money. More money = good schools and less money = bad schools (and vice-versa)? This is clearly not true. Schools with the same level of funding can have vastly different outcomes. Some schools improve their outcomes without any change in funding and some schools decline in the same situation. Some very wealthy schools (state or private) can suffer specific problems and some very poor schools can still find ways to excel in specific areas.

    The factors that lead to good or bad outcomes from schools (measured and real) are wide and varied and focusing on a single one (such as funding) alone is destined to failure. If a school is (or appears to be) doing poorly, someone needs to get off their backside and find out why (all the whys) and work on addressing them. Some of them can't be addressed of course. One of the biggest factors in a schools outcome is the fundamental abilities of the children who join them and the support (or lack thereof) from the parents. Of course, it could be suggested that one of the hidden aims of vouchers is to deal with this by pushing the academically weak children of disinterested parents to one side.

    Vouchers won't solve the problems of "bad" schools. They'd probably make some of them much worse for what little they might improve elsewhere. Without an active desire to improve all schooling for all children that isn't going to happen. With that desire from enough people, tricks like vouchers shouldn't be necessary at all.

Page 45 of 65 FirstFirst ... 35434445464755 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •