View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

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  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #421
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    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I think you need to re-acquaint. Vouchers, in many of the proposed systems, are not just for sending your kid to private school.
    Um, yeah, I know since the schools in my state don't use vouchers for private school. I mentioned that more than once.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I doubt that the vouchers will enable many of the the poor to afford a better school. Vouchers will drive up the price of all private schools since all but the poorer families will be able to pay more than they could previously and there will be more people trying to get into a limited number of schools. Free market competition should not be applied to education because public education should be provided to all on an equal basis and many families will not have the ability to travel far out of their neighborhoods to where the good schools are located. There is a lot of money being spent by for-profit education companies advocating for these changes because they are hoping to increase their profits dramatically.

    I don't trust the whole voucher scheme because the real intent is to bust unions, restore racial segregation, get taxpayers to fund religious education and to destroy the public school system so that education can be run by profiteers.
    Well okay. Thanks for giving an honest opinion about that. That shows more guts that most of your ideological brethren here have shown. But you'll have to show some evidence for the purpose of the vouchers being to bust unions, restore racial segregation, fund religious education, and destroy the public school system, and benefit profiteers.

    I could have sworn the majority of us supporting school vouchers--I would guess maybe 100% of us--approve of school choice because it helps all kids get a better education than they could otherwise. And we pretty much are unified that the status quo that you describe as 'providing to all on an equal basis' has put the cost of our education near the top in the world while putting us way down near the bottom of the barrel in effectiveness of that education. We simply think it is time to do it differently and achieve better results.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #423
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well okay. Thanks for giving an honest opinion about that. That shows more guts that most of your ideological brethren here have shown. But you'll have to show some evidence for the purpose of the vouchers being to bust unions, restore racial segregation, fund religious education, and destroy the public school system, and benefit profiteers.

    I could have sworn the majority of us supporting school vouchers--I would guess maybe 100% of us--approve of school choice because it helps all kids get a better education than they could otherwise. And we pretty much are unified that the status quo that you describe as 'providing to all on an equal basis' has put the cost of our education near the top in the world while putting us way down near the bottom of the barrel in effectiveness of that education. We simply think it is time to do it differently and achieve better results.
    Change can be effective if done right, or destructive if done wrong. Results should be interesting but MA is doing something right.

  4. #424
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I doubt that the vouchers will enable many of the the poor to afford a better school. Vouchers will drive up the price of all private schools since all but the poorer families will be able to pay more than they could previously and there will be more people trying to get into a limited number of schools. Free market competition should not be applied to education because public education should be provided to all on an equal basis and many families will not have the ability to travel far out of their neighborhoods to where the good schools are located. There is a lot of money being spent by for-profit education companies advocating for these changes because they are hoping to increase their profits dramatically.

    I don't trust the whole voucher scheme because the real intent is to bust unions, restore racial segregation, get taxpayers to fund religious education and to destroy the public school system so that education can be run by profiteers.
    You can doubt it all you want but it's working here in Ohio and mostly benefitting low income to middleclass families.
    I find your "real intent" of vouchers to be absolutely absurd.
    Not all charter schools are equal and in my state they are rated to help a parent determine which school they select for their child.
    Normally the voucher does not pay for the total tuition.
    The one receiving the voucher still pays taxes that support the public school district.
    The voucher can be used on a public school or a private school
    There are a growing number of teachers who are just fine with not having to put up with a union. In fact many of them think they are a big part of the problem with public education.
    You know public schools have been complaining for years over the large class sizes. By allowing choice the classroom sizes decrease in public schools
    And what in sam hill business is it of anyone if a parent wants to send their child to a religious school? Remember, these parents are still paying taxes. Some parents choose religious schools for their children and they are not religious but simply because some tend to offer a more liberal arts education where their little munchkins actually learn the art of critical thinking. They are also known to be intolerant to bad behavior and provide a more safe atmosphere for children to learn.

  5. #425
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Um, yeah, I know since the schools in my state don't use vouchers for private school. I mentioned that more than once.
    Then why do you insist on only applying them to private schools?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  6. #426
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Question for everyone:

    Would you rather that the average poor kid get a crappy, but completely secular, education, or a good education with religious influence? Keep in mind, most of those kids in the secular system are likely getting religious influences anyway.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  7. #427
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Question for everyone:

    Would you rather that the average poor kid get a crappy, but completely secular, education, or a good education with religious influence? Keep in mind, most of those kids in the secular system are likely getting religious influences anyway.
    I'd prefer everyone get a high quality secular education without the religious mind poison.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I'd prefer everyone get a high quality secular education without the religious mind poison.
    Ok, but if the choices were those I proposed, and only those, which would you rather?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  9. #429
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    ...But you'll have to show some evidence for the purpose of the vouchers being to bust unions, restore racial segregation, fund religious education, and destroy the public school system, and benefit profiteers.....
    "Look who’s deploying some of his considerable financial clout to influence who we Hoosiers elect as superintendent of public instruction this fall. It’s billionaire New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who donated $40,000 last month to the re-election campaign of Republican Superintendent Tony Bennett.

    Bloomberg, as mayor, has championed some of the same policies that Bennett has pushed in Indiana: more charter schools, test-based evaluations of teachers, etc. But it’s not like Bennett needs the money. He’s sitting on more than a half million dollars, and there’s no way his Democratic opponent, Glenda Ritz, will ever come close to that.

    Ritz, an elementary school teacher in Washington Township schools on the north side of Indianapolis, did get $30,000 last month from the political action committee of the Indiana State Teachers Association. Well, it’s a start.

    Bennett, meanwhile, got June campaign contributions of $25,000 from Merrillville hotel developer Dean White, $50,000 from charter school founder Christel DeHaan and $25,000 from Gov. Mitch Daniels’ Aiming Higher PAC.

    On June 29, the same day he recorded the Bloomberg donation, Bennett also got $25,000 from Hoosiers for Economic Growth. As School Matters reported previously, the money behind HEG doesn’t come from Hoosiers and it has nothing to do with economic growth. HEG gets most of its funding, including all $275,000 it reported receiving this year, from the American Federation for Children, a school-voucher advocacy organization headed by Michigan conservative activist Betsy DeVos.

    Much of AFC’s money – including $1.2 million in early 2012 – has come from three investment managers affiliated with Philadelphia firm Susquehanna International Group, Joel Greenberg, Arthur Dantchik and Jeff Yass, according to the organization’s Indiana campaign finance reports. In previous years, AFC got more than $1.5 million from Alice Walton, whose family owns Wal-Mart, and $1 million from New York hedge-fund manager Julian Robertson.

    Strange, isn’t it? These people hand out six-figure checks like candy at a Fourth of July parade.

    AFC in turn has bankrolled pro-voucher organizations in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Indiana. In 2010, Hoosiers for Economic Growth funneled its share into the campaigns of Republican legislative candidates. Republicans took full control of the Statehouse and delivered for their supporters by approving in 2011 what was then the most extensive school voucher program in the country."
    Bloomberg, voucher advocates putting up money for Bennett | School Matters

  10. #430
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Ok, but if the choices were those I proposed, and only those, which would you rather?
    Neither. I gave my preference. I don't have to pick one from your stacked deck.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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