View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

Voters
102. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
Page 40 of 65 FirstFirst ... 30383940414250 ... LastLast
Results 391 to 400 of 643

Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #391
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,145

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    There is no reason to believe that there would not arise schools tailored to their specific needs and therefore more efficient.
    but many of the parents of those special needs kids do not want them in enclaves with other special needs kids
    they want them with 'regular' students in 'regular' schools, to 'mainstream' them
    why would a FOR PROFIT school allow students who are much more expensive to educate, attend at the same voucher value as a student who did not need extraordinary and expensive resources, if they are allowed to exclude such special needs/high cost students [as is the circumstance today]
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #392
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    There is no reason to believe that there would not arise schools tailored to their specific needs and therefore more efficient.
    Really? The motive behind any school that has to make a profit is profit. That is why I think these schools choose the number of students they take in with expensive issues and get rid of those that they know need more.

  3. #393
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but many of the parents of those special needs kids do not want them in enclaves with other special needs kids
    they want them with 'regular' students in 'regular' schools, to 'mainstream' them
    why would a FOR PROFIT school allow students who are much more expensive to educate, attend at the same voucher value as a student who did not need extraordinary and expensive resources, if they are allowed to exclude such special needs/high cost students [as is the circumstance today]
    Exactly! Why would they take on the extra costs when they can simply exclude them.

  4. #394
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,522
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    AlbqOwl, I've no problem with the fact that they raised the additional funds rather than raid funds from other students that attend public schools. In fact, I applaud it. Unfortunately, the problem is that is not the norm. That is a problem. I've no problem speaking out against it because it's depleting funds from the schools that need it the most. That is just one of the reasons classroom teachers are left with fewer and fewer resources to help the most needy students. Also, are you speaking about a district or school? I see school but perhaps, you could show me more.
    And I have no problem with debating the issue. I have a HUGE problem when dishonest tactics are used to sell something though, no matter what it is. And the NEA has been exceedingly dishonest in their own self-serving intent to prevent any form of privatizing the schools or reducing federal powers over those schools. The NEA's goal is to protect all their dues paying teachers whether or not they actually teach kids.

    My goal, as is all others who promote school choice, is to educate children. All you have to do is look at the track record of the schools receiving maximum government funding to see that funding is not the problem. Some of those are the most poorly performing.

    And when you look at the impressive record of the home schooled, parochial schooled, private schooled, and charter schooled kids, even with the poorest and most disadvantaged kids, compared to the average public school, any thinking person has to admit that many if not most public schools just aren't getting the job done as well as it can be done.

    I am old enough to remember when it was the local community that funded the schools and the state and federal government had little or nothing to do with them. And raising funds for projects not covered by school taxes was the norm, not something unusual. Not something that should be discouraged. But if you read the story I posted you will see that the costs of providing a better education with the voucher program was about half that when the government dictates it all. You got caught up with the idea that they fell a bit short and had to raise some money to cover expenses. And you missed the success story that was there to see.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #395
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And I have no problem with debating the issue. I have a HUGE problem when dishonest tactics are used to sell something though, no matter what it is. And the NEA has been exceedingly dishonest in their own self-serving intent to prevent any form of privatizing the schools or reducing federal powers over those schools. The NEA's goal is to protect all their dues paying teachers whether or not they actually teach kids.

    My goal, as is all others who promote school choice, is to educate children. All you have to do is look at the track record of the schools receiving maximum government funding to see that funding is not the problem. Some of those are the most poorly performing.

    And when you look at the impressive record of the home schooled, parochial schooled, private schooled, and charter schooled kids, even with the poorest and most disadvantaged kids, compared to the average public school, any thinking person has to admit that many if not most public schools just aren't getting the job done as well as it can be done.

    I am old enough to remember when it was the local community that funded the schools and the state and federal government had little or nothing to do with them. And raising funds for projects not covered by school taxes was the norm, not something unusual. Not something that should be discouraged. But if you read the story I posted you will see that the costs of providing a better education with the voucher program was about half that when the government dictates it all. You got caught up with the idea that they fell a bit short and had to raise some money to cover expenses. And you missed the success story that was there to see.
    The research was not done by the NEA. Feel free to look at the research and tell me where you disagree instead of hiding behind Ad Hominem. You are not listening to where private schools/charters etc.... have a quota which they can say 'enough'. We have a budget so we can only take on so many expensive children. Public schools CANNOT keep those children from entering their doors no matter how expensive they may costs. How these private/charter schools run is mainly by depleting funds from public schools not from raising costs through other means. Any school can have a success story if they are properly funded and staffed.

  6. #396
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,145

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And I have no problem with debating the issue. I have a HUGE problem when dishonest tactics are used to sell something though, no matter what it is. And the NEA has been exceedingly dishonest in their own self-serving intent to prevent any form of privatizing the schools or reducing federal powers over those schools. The NEA's goal is to protect all their dues paying teachers whether or not they actually teach kids.
    please share with us those positions the NEA has taken which are intended to protect their dues paying member teachers

    My goal, as is all others who promote school choice, is to educate children. All you have to do is look at the track record of the schools receiving maximum government funding to see that funding is not the problem. Some of those are the most poorly performing.
    but are those well funded schools spending their money educating kids or doing other things
    money is certainly an issue for schools which do not have adequate resources
    money tends not to be a problem for schools in affluent communities
    those weak urban and rural schools tend to have inadequate funding
    and that tends to be where the weak schools are located

    And when you look at the impressive record of the home schooled, parochial schooled, private schooled, and charter schooled kids, even with the poorest and most disadvantaged kids, compared to the average public school, any thinking person has to admit that many if not most public schools just aren't getting the job done as well as it can be done.
    this is so wrong. jesuit operated schools tend to have the best results. Christian schools tend to have the worst (especially those operated by the southern baptist church). some charter schools are excellent. they frequently have cherry picked from among the available students in their community. home schooled kids are all over the place. some do well, others are weak. they tend to have difficulty adjusting to a college environment once they leave home. but once adjusted for having to teach all students, including the trouble makers and those with special needs, the average public school performs at least as well as its average alterative counterparts

    I am old enough to remember when it was the local community that funded the schools and the state and federal government had little or nothing to do with them. And raising funds for projects not covered by school taxes was the norm, not something unusual. Not something that should be discouraged. But if you read the story I posted you will see that the costs of providing a better education with the voucher program was about half that when the government dictates it all. You got caught up with the idea that they fell a bit short and had to raise some money to cover expenses. And you missed the success story that was there to see.
    and i am old enough to remember when schools were segregated. when black schools received the old books and supplies left over when the white schools got new teaching materials
    and in my berg, where the schools were stupidly found to be unitary by my (now dead) reich wing neighbor, the federal judge, the schools have returned to being segregated. we have white schools and minority schools ... even tho the minority students now outnumber the white students. and when those high performing white schools need something, the affluent PTA members make sure it is made available. and when the low performing minority schools need something ... well, there is no PTA activity and no affluence to be able to buy those needed 'extras' the school system seems unable to provide. my wife teaches at a school where 98% of the students qualify for subsidized meals. while all the students receive a laptop thanks to bill & melinda gates foundation funding, when they go home, many of the kids have no access to the internet. there remains a digital divide between the haves and the have nots. if you are in a competitive environment and your peers can do their homework assignment on an internet accessed computer while must do yours with a pen and paper, whose work is likely to receive a better grade. the students suffer educationally because they come from poor environments. some who recently went on a field trip to a lake twenty minutes away, wondered if they were looking at the ocean. they have not been to a museum. they have no art supplies at home. they have no books in their home. no one reads to them. there is very little exposure to the culture that the more affluent and middle class students enjoy. their baseline of knowledge, from which they start is very much lower, than their more affluent peers. and yet we expect them to perform at the same educational level and then wonder why they do not? i do not see the success stories you insist exist ... at least not for the poor kids
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #397
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Actually you have to pay for every school. The money goes into a big pool on the various levels and then gets spread out. So a district that has more people in it than it's neighbor might not get more money, nor will one school with more students necessarily get more money (in comparable economic areas).
    I'm well aware of funding sources for my district and how our state divides the funds it sends to schools. My school taxes support my school district and my district alone. The basic formula for state funds includes the number of students per day attending, so the district with more students will get more state money in comparable economic areas. If your school funding is different then you have a very strange method of taxation and funding where you live.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #398
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    At the very least, the great majority of states do. Those that don't, if any, would be rare exceptions.
    Home Schooling Topics and Resources
    These resources are provided as a convenience and a service for those seeking information about home schooling. References to agencies or organizations outside the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education DO NOT constitute our endorsement.


    Accreditation
    The Missouri State Board of Education and the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education do not have authority to regulate private or home schools. There is no program for the inspection, approval, or accreditation of home schools in Missouri.


    Curriculum/Textbooks
    Missouri does not have a statewide-adopted school curriculum nor is there a state-approved textbook listing. The selection of instructional materials is the responsibility of parents who home school their children. Missouri public, private, and home schooled students have the option to take online courses through the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education's Virtual Instruction Program (MoVIP).


    Diplomas
    There is no state recognized high school diploma for home schooled students. Home schooled students may take the high school equivalency examination to obtain a high school equivalency certificate.
    Home Schooling Topics and Resources
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #399
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    My argument was based on suburban schools. With the exception of "elite" private schools, most private schools operate at 75% of the cost public schools pay per student. In my predominantly white, middle to upper class, county, the average tuition is $8000 while the average public school expense per student is $13,000.
    You keep interchanging tuition and operating cost but they're not usually synonymous in private schools. For example, it's a well known fact that Catholic schools are highly subsidized by the Church, so comparing Catholic school tuition to public school cost, instead of comparing Catholic school cost to public school cost, isn't a valid comparison. You really need to make sure the Catholic church is willing to subsidize millions and millions of non-Catholic children before you use their tuition rates as "cost". The same applies to virtually all private schools in America. I think you'll find most of them are supported through other means than just tuition, so to use private school tuition statistics you would need the consent of all contributors and philanthropists that donate to private schools. Good luck getting that because I'd bet they're not willing.


    I would also note your private school "tuition" most likely does not include transportation costs.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #400
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:16 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,309

    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You keep interchanging tuition and operating cost but they're not usually synonymous in private schools. For example, it's a well known fact that Catholic schools are highly subsidized by the Church, so comparing Catholic school tuition to public school cost, instead of comparing Catholic school cost to public school cost, isn't a valid comparison. You really need to make sure the Catholic church is willing to subsidize millions and millions of non-Catholic children before you use their tuition rates as "cost". The same applies to virtually all private schools in America. I think you'll find most of them are supported through other means than just tuition, so to use private school tuition statistics you would need the consent of all contributors and philanthropists that donate to private schools. Good luck getting that because I'd bet they're not willing.


    I would also note your private school "tuition" most likely does not include transportation costs.
    Revenue (tuition) and production costs are actually never equal or maybe I should say only in rare cases.

Page 40 of 65 FirstFirst ... 30383940414250 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •