View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

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  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #321
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Only because private reject the kids they don't want. If they were stuck taking any student that walks in the door, they wouldn't do any better than public schools. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest that private schools don't even do as good as public schools when they can't screen their students.
    Show the evidence. There's nothing keeping the well performing schools under a voucher system from rejecting a student that doesn't meet minimum standards so long is there is a school available required to accept the student. That school should have much lower standards of success and it would leave the truly "bad apple" students concentrated in controllable locations, allowing the not so bad apple students freedom from their influence. If it's just for academic reasons, I think a voucher school (public) should be required to accept an under performing student for a minimum period at least in order to see if the student is capable of catching up in a better environment.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  2. #322
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I'm pretty sure that if there is money to be made, there will be sufficient good schools for all who want a good school. Evenso, just to get a kid out of a failing school into a better one would be a huge blessing for many parents. It wouldn't have to be the best.
    No, your premise is incorrect. While, I agree there is money to be made, that does not mean money to be made will improve student outcome. One way money can be made is by streamlining children. Streamlining can take on different forms. The least expensive way to streamline is to a) accept only those who have potential whether through ability or parental support or a combination of the two b) getting rid of those children who lack one or both of the above. What you create is schools with high ability children with active parental support and schools with children who struggle due to a host of issues. We basically do that now but the biggest difference between what is being pushed today and what we had is now more money being funneled away from those who need it most setting them up for failure at the gate. Instead of taking money away from the most vulnerable schools that lack resources that many wealthy schools may not even need, we should be better funding them for resources such as social services within the school. For instance, children coming from a violent/abusive background need mental health services available. If a child is experiencing PTS during the school day, shoving them in the back of a classroom where they won't distract others is not sufficient for anybody's learning experience. Now with that said, what profit making institution wants to take on that sort of clientele? It is easier for a system to streamline them to those super expensive private prisons who just happen to make a profit off the taxpayer's dime. Not really a solution.

  3. #323
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I suppose all but vouchers to religious church rule schools. That should not be paid by tax dollars nor a basis for tax deference or avoidance.
    Actually why not? This issue of separation of church and state is one of preventing any one religion from being a ruling factor in the running of the country. As long as there is no restrictions on which "religious" school are being attended (or lack of religion) then the principle is not violated. I find your view as one that goes too far in the separation of church and state.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  4. #324
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    No, your premise is incorrect. While, I agree there is money to be made, that does not mean money to be made will improve student outcome. One way money can be made is by streamlining children. Streamlining can take on different forms. The least expensive way to streamline is to a) accept only those who have potential whether through ability or parental support or a combination of the two b) getting rid of those children who lack one or both of the above. What you create is schools with high ability children with active parental support and schools with children who struggle due to a host of issues. We basically do that now but the biggest difference between what is being pushed today and what we had is now more money being funneled away from those who need it most setting them up for failure at the gate. Instead of taking money away from the most vulnerable schools that lack resources that many wealthy schools may not even need, we should be better funding them for resources such as social services within the school. For instance, children coming from a violent/abusive background need mental health services available. If a child is experiencing PTS during the school day, shoving them in the back of a classroom where they won't distract others is not sufficient for anybody's learning experience. Now with that said, what profit making institution wants to take on that sort of clientele? It is easier for a system to streamline them to those super expensive private prisons who just happen to make a profit off the taxpayer's dime. Not really a solution.

    great point. not unlike health insurers doing whatever is possible to only insure healthy people ... the ones they have to spend little money on
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  5. #325
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Actually why not? This issue of separation of church and state is one of preventing any one religion from being a ruling factor in the running of the country. As long as there is no restrictions on which "religious" school are being attended (or lack of religion) then the principle is not violated. I find your view as one that goes too far in the separation of church and state.
    i have a problem with my tax dollars being used to fund indoctrination in the form of an education. public dollars should not be used to teach students that evolution is an invalid theory, that the earth is only 6000 years old, that the Bible is the infallible word of G_d. tax money should not be used to underwrite the teachings of fundamentalists, including those within the American taliban, who believe the races - and sexes - should be segregated. let them spew their crap as they have a right to do ... only not using our tax dollars to do so
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  6. #326
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    great point. not unlike health insurers doing whatever is possible to only insure healthy people ... the ones they have to spend little money on
    Yep, if the bottom line is profit, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the motive will be how to attract the most desirable "consumers"because it will be at a cheaper cost, with better results. The others will be throw aways for more profit to be made in the future. Profit can't be lost in this game but human life certainly may.

  7. #327
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Yep, if the bottom line is profit, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the motive will be how to attract the most desirable "consumers"because it will be at a cheaper cost, with better results. The others will be throw aways for more profit to be made in the future. Profit can't be lost in this game but human life certainly may.
    using the same health industry comparison, those 'dreg' students will be relegated to accept an educational equivalent to emergency room care ... expensive, inadequate, and inappropriate for their actual needs. the beast will have been so starved after paying out all the vouchers, there will be little money available to incur public education expense for those students who are without a private school willing to accept them and their voucher ... because the private schools will not have been built with them in mind as the voucher would not nearly accommodate the cost of educating those with mental, and/or emotional, and/or behavioral, and/or physical handicaps
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #328
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    using the same health industry comparison, those 'dreg' students will be relegated to accept an educational equivalent to emergency room care ... expensive, inadequate, and inappropriate for their actual needs. the beast will have been so starved after paying out all the vouchers, there will be little money available to incur public education expense for those students who are without a private school willing to accept them and their voucher ... because the private schools will not have been built with them in mind as the voucher would not nearly accommodate the cost of educating those with mental, and/or emotional, and/or behavioral, and/or physical handicaps
    You got it! Those children you mentioned are not profitable. That is not at all what education was meant to be about and yet that is the direction we are headed.

  9. #329
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Under the proposed system, how are you going to stop the bad kids from coming to the nice suburban schools and giving them problems they don't need? That's unfair to the people who live out in the suburbs and didn't ask for those problems.
    It could be set up if he/she has been suspended/poor attendance/bad grades etc. the student simply would not qualify for a voucher. Most charter/religious schools do not tolerate poor behavior and would probably deny the application of a student with that type of history. Not all schools in suburbs are superb either. Many parents would love to have the ability to send their kids to a charter or religious school but just can't afford the tuition and pay taxes for a school system that is letting them down. Public schools are becoming inefficient because of all the bureaucracy. The teachers deal with so much red tape that they often avoid taking action when they should when dealing with unruly children because of the threat of lawsuits. Our public schools are now run by laws/mandates instead of people. And with Common Core any rights the states had in regard to education will be stripped from them. By giving the federal government all this control there eventually will be no differences in private schools from public because all schools will be forced to teach the same curriculum and will have to do the mandatory testing involved. If you have got an extra half hour today, I highly recommend watching a series of videos explaining Common Core and then I would be interested to learn if your lack of support for vouchers change.



    He's called Jesus.
    You best start praying hard because what is about to happen in our school systems over most of the country is darn scary.

  10. #330
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    It could be set up if he/she has been suspended/poor attendance/bad grades etc. the student simply would not qualify for a voucher. Most charter/religious schools do not tolerate poor behavior and would probably deny the application of a student with that type of history. Not all schools in suburbs are superb either. Many parents would love to have the ability to send their kids to a charter or religious school but just can't afford the tuition and pay taxes for a school system that is letting them down. Public schools are becoming inefficient because of all the bureaucracy. The teachers deal with so much red tape that they often avoid taking action when they should when dealing with unruly children because of the threat of lawsuits. Our public schools are now run by laws/mandates instead of people. And with Common Core any rights the states had in regard to education will be stripped from them. By giving the federal government all this control there eventually will be no differences in private schools from public because all schools will be forced to teach the same curriculum and will have to do the mandatory testing involved. If you have got an extra half hour today, I highly recommend watching a series of videos explaining Common Core and then I would be interested to learn if your lack of support for vouchers change.





    You best start praying hard because what is about to happen in our school systems over most of the country is darn scary.
    And the administration is pushing to have children go to pre-schools as early as age 2? As Red Riding Hood said to the wolf: "What big teeth you have, Grandmother!" And we all know the reply....

    Greetings, Vesper.

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