View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

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  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #301
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Hell no.

    Good public schools are a big reason why certain property values are high. People want to live in the good school districts so that their kids can go there and get a good education, so they pay a premium for it.

    If you start bussing kids in from the inner city, that crashes the property values in pretty much every suburban development in America.

    Screw that.
    Isn't the purpose of taxpayer funding of education to insure that poor children have a comparable chance at a decent education to that which wealthier children have?

    And doesn't the principle that you just defended defeat this purpose?

    If all we're going to gain by having taxpayer-funded schooling is to tie the quality of a child's education to the income level of the neighborhood in which that child lives, then why don't we just do away with taxpayer-funded schools entirely, cut out the government middleman, and leave it to parents to pay directly for their own children's schooling out of their own incomes (which would then no longer be reduced by the amount that government taxes them to pay for education)?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  2. #302
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire X View Post
    Freedom of religion =/= freedom from education

    If the government is going to require schooling, it certainly needs to require for the sciences to be taught properly. As for sex ed, that is necessary for public health reasons. Crappy parents don't always teach their kids those things.
    Some people's religion doesn't agree with evolution, or with teaching sex ed to minors. Some people's religion would have them believing in creationism and abstinence. It would be wrong to deny people the right to act upon their religious beliefs in a private setting such as a private school.

    Even if we don't agree with those beliefs. Such is the nature of freedom.

  3. #303
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Hell no.

    Good public schools are a big reason why certain property values are high. People want to live in the good school districts so that their kids can go there and get a good education, so they pay a premium for it.

    If you start bussing kids in from the inner city, that crashes the property values in pretty much every suburban development in America.
    So good schools are good because they are supported by a wealthier tax base,making more money available for them?



    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The good schools are only good because the kids perform better and the environment is safer and better for both teachers and kids.

    The kids perform better because they come from solid families.
    So good schools are good because the kids come from better families?

    Which is it? make up your mind?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #304
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    So good schools are good because they are supported by a wealthier tax base,making more money available for them?





    So good schools are good because the kids come from better families?

    Which is it? make up your mind?
    Both play a factor. That the kids come from good, stable families is more important than the money, however. I believe that kids that come from a good family situation are more likely to be well-behaved and to perform better in school.

    What I meant in the first instance was that schools in wealthier neighborhoods have better facilities, supplies, and tend to attract better teachers.

  5. #305
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    I support school choice 100% the problem is the crooked unions will never allow it.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  6. #306
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I disagree. What needs to happen instead is we need to make the necessary investments to improve the inner city schools themselves.

    On a personal note, we had kids who were bussed out to my school when I was growing up. I grew up in a suburb, we had good schools, all that. The kids who were shipped out to us were always sent out there against their will by their parents, they always caused problems.... vandalism, theft, fighting, bullying, drugs..... a number of them were expelled, held back, etc. A lot of those kids have disciplinary problems. That's just anecdotal but I've lived it myself.

    These suburban people didn't ask for someone else's problems to be dumped on them. It's not fair. Clean up the inner city schools.... that's the right way forward.
    But previously, you said…

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Good public schools are a big reason why certain property values are high. People want to live in the good school districts so that their kids can go there and get a good education, so they pay a premium for it.

    If you start bussing kids in from the inner city, that crashes the property values in pretty much every suburban development in America.
    …in effect, claiming that the good schools are that way because the area that they serve has a higher tax base, generating more revenue to support a better school. And further, you're OK with this, and opposed to undermining it, because those residents in the good neighborhoods are paying a premium in taxes to support their good schools, and it's unfair to offer the services of their good schools to poor students whose parents aren't paying the same higher taxes, and it would hurt the property values in the good, high-tax-paying neighborhood.

    So, from where is the money to come to pay for the improvements that you want to be made to the bad schools? By your own claims, they are the way they are because there isn't the tax base to support them being any better.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  7. #307
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I support school choice 100% the problem is the crooked unions will never allow it.
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  8. #308
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Schools are typically paid for out of the property tax which is tied to the local district. That is to say, the local residents pay for the local school. It's not like public schools are paid for by a giant pot of gold in Washington DC.

    That's why wealthier areas typically have nicer public schools. Those schools get more tax revenue because the revenue they derive comes directly from the surrounding neighborhoods.

    This voucher system and all the talk about bussing kids in from the inner city is just going to upset the apple cart.
    Sometimes, the apple cart needs upsetting.

    Both you and I identify as “Very Conservative”. But I am beginning to wonder, now, if you might be a Poe. In this thread, you seem to be rather openly exhibiting much of the same exaggerated bigotry and elitism of which liberals like to falsely accuse conservatives; you seem to be intentionally playing the liberal stereotype of a conservative, rather than expressing what most true conservatives would accept and understand as conservative values.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  9. #309
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Only because private reject the kids they don't want. If they were stuck taking any student that walks in the door, they wouldn't do any better than public schools. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest that private schools don't even do as good as public schools when they can't screen their students.
    I don't think there's ever been an opportunity for a fair comparison.

    Private schools start out at a very strong disadvantage in the marketplace. Public schools are “free”. Parents can send their children there, without any cost beyond the taxes that they already have to pay regardless of whether they have children or where they send those children for schooling.

    To send a child to a private school, the parents have to pay the full cost of that school's tuition, on top of what they still have to pay in taxes to support the public school that they are choosing not to use.

    Private schools are not going to be able to get any students, other than those whose parents can afford the additional tuition, and are convinced that it is worth the cost to send their children there.

    The market is heavily skewed in favor of the public schools.

    Really, that's the whole point of this discussion—whether the market should somehow be leveled to give private schools a fair chance to compete on even terms with public schools. Only when the market is thus leveled will we ever really be able to see for sure which kind of school can really outperform the other.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  10. #310
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Some people's religion doesn't agree with evolution, or with teaching sex ed to minors. Some people's religion would have them believing in creationism and abstinence. It would be wrong to deny people the right to act upon their religious beliefs in a private setting such as a private school.

    Even if we don't agree with those beliefs. Such is the nature of freedom.
    One exception to freedom that modern society has decided upon is that minors will be forced to be educated until the age of 18. The basis of this education will be reading, writing, mathematics, the sciences, etc. Religion is allowed in private schools, but it should not be allowed in place of science, instead only in addition to it.

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