View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

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  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #271
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Hell no.

    Good public schools are a big reason why certain property values are high. People want to live in the good school districts so that their kids can go there and get a good education, so they pay a premium for it.

    If you start bussing kids in from the inner city, that crashes the property values in pretty much every suburban development in America.

    Screw that.
    How would that inner city kid prevent a good school from being a good school? And nobody would bus him. His parents would deliver him or send him on public transportation or whatever--anything to get the kid out of a failing inner city school.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    How would that inner city kid prevent a good school from being a good school? And nobody would bus him. His parents would deliver him or send him on public transportation or whatever--anything to get the kid out of a failing inner city school.
    The good schools are only good because the kids perform better and the environment is safer and better for both teachers and kids.

    The kids perform better because they come from solid families.

    If you start bringing kids in to the school who have problems at home, who are used to violence on their streets, then they will bring those problems with them to the suburbs.

    The suburban kids and parents didn't ask for that. It's not fair to them. So now you're going to lower the quality of their school and lower their property values at the same time.

  3. #273
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The good schools are only good because the kids perform better and the environment is safer and better for both teachers and kids.

    The kids perform better because they come from solid families.

    If you start bringing kids in to the school who have problems at home, who are used to violence on their streets, then they will bring those problems with them to the suburbs.

    The suburban kids and parents didn't ask for that. It's not fair to them. So now you're going to lower the quality of their school and lower their property values at the same time.
    Sorry, but I'm not buying the argument. That inner city kid is not automatically subject to all the problems of the inner city. And any parent who cares enough about that kid to get him/her out of a failing school and into a good one, with all the logistical problems that will entail for the parent, is likely a parent that is going to see that the kid takes full advantage of that opportunity. We are not suggesting in any way that the school lower its requirements or standards to accommodate that inner city kid. But if the kid is up to meeting those requirements and standards, he/she deserves the shot. Certainly those kids that live in the immediate school district should have dibs on available slots in that school. And when it is full, it is full. But again, if there is room, and the inner city kid applies, he/she deserves a shot at the brass ring too.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Sorry, but I'm not buying the argument. That inner city kid is not automatically subject to all the problems of the inner city. And any parent who cares enough about that kid to get him/her out of a failing school and into a good one, with all the logistical problems that will entail for the parent, is likely a parent that is going to see that the kid takes full advantage of that opportunity. We are not suggesting in any way that the school lower its requirements or standards to accommodate that inner city kid. But if the kid is up to meeting those requirements and standards, he/she deserves the shot. Certainly those kids that live in the immediate school district should have dibs on available slots in that school. And when it is full, it is full. But again, if there is room, and the inner city kid applies, he/she deserves a shot at the brass ring too.
    I disagree. What needs to happen instead is we need to make the necessary investments to improve the inner city schools themselves.

    On a personal note, we had kids who were bussed out to my school when I was growing up. I grew up in a suburb, we had good schools, all that. The kids who were shipped out to us were always sent out there against their will by their parents, they always caused problems.... vandalism, theft, fighting, bullying, drugs..... a number of them were expelled, held back, etc. A lot of those kids have disciplinary problems. That's just anecdotal but I've lived it myself.

    These suburban people didn't ask for someone else's problems to be dumped on them. It's not fair. Clean up the inner city schools.... that's the right way forward.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I disagree. What needs to happen instead is we need to make the necessary investments to improve the inner city schools themselves.

    On a personal note, we had kids who were bussed out to my school when I was growing up. I grew up in a suburb, we had good schools, all that. The kids who were shipped out to us were always sent out there against their will by their parents, they always caused problems.... vandalism, theft, fighting, bullying, drugs..... a number of them were expelled, held back, etc. A lot of those kids have disciplinary problems. That's just anecdotal but I've lived it myself.

    These suburban people didn't ask for someone else's problems to be dumped on them. It's not fair. Clean up the inner city schools.... that's the right way forward.
    We aren't talking about forced bussing or anything against anybody's will are we. That's a separate issue and a separate discussion. Totally non sequitur to the thread topic.

    This discussion is on the pros and cons of CHOICE, not coercion or social engineering. We're talking about a kid who wants a good education and parents willing to do whatever is necessary that they can to see that he/she receives it.

    And the whole purpose of school choice is to put the money where kids are being educated. And if the failing schools want to keep getting that money, they are advised to clean up their acts and start doing what is necessary to educate the kids. Otherwise they close. As they should.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #276
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But the concept of vouchers to improve education is pretty simple.

    If you have the choice of handing over a voucher plus a few thousand more dollars in tuition to a parochial or private school . . . or. . .

    You can have the choice of handing over a voucher to a public school that will provide a positive environment and educate your child as effectively as the parochial or private school and you pay nothing additional. . . .

    Which school will you most likely choose?

    And if teachers, administrators, and school boards want to stay in business, what might they be willing to do to improve education sufficiently that the parents will turn in those vouchers to the public school instead of the parochial or private school?

    As I said, for those willing to provide a top notch education for the kids, it's a win win proposition all the way around.
    Actually, most private schools provide a better education at lower cost per student than do public schools. So, if my county gave me a voucher equaling what they spend per student, I'd have about $3,500 extra per kid, per year.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  7. #277
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I disagree. What needs to happen instead is we need to make the necessary investments to improve the inner city schools themselves.
    The only actual way to do that is to make schools compete for students.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #278
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The only actual way to do that is to make schools compete for students.
    Which isn't going to happen under a liberal system.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    We aren't talking about forced bussing or anything against anybody's will are we. That's a separate issue and a separate discussion. Totally non sequitur to the thread topic.

    This discussion is on the pros and cons of CHOICE, not coercion or social engineering. We're talking about a kid who wants a good education and parents willing to do whatever is necessary that they can to see that he/she receives it.

    And the whole purpose of school choice is to put the money where kids are being educated. And if the failing schools want to keep getting that money, they are advised to clean up their acts and start doing what is necessary to educate the kids. Otherwise they close. As they should.
    Social engineering is exactly what it is. Under this system, parents will no longer be able to relocate to areas where they know their kids will be safe and get a good education. Vouchers would mean that any kid from the inner city could show up at a nice suburban school.

    I have nothing against the inner city, the kids from there, or their families. I'm sure some of those families are great. But as a future parent, this kind of talk really concerns me. I don't want my kids to grow up around drugs, violence, bullying, and so forth.

    My kids are not lab rats. I have every right to protect them and the system that currently benefits them.

    Experiment somewhere else, and don't dump your inner city problems on my neighborhood.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The only actual way to do that is to make schools compete for students.
    Not even close to being true.

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