View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

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  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #251
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    That's not really what I'm asking ... let me restate it?

    If a failing public school loses enrollment, and thus loses federal money & the ability to hire good teachers; what happens to the kids that CAN'T move? I don't care about the teachers or their jobs. I'm asking what's the solution for the kids that CAN'T afford to seek out another "better" school, when they've been left behind by all the kids that CAN afford it?
    I said it in the post in answer to your other post. Every family pays taxes into the system and every child has a dollar amount tied to them. That money can be moved from one school to the other. So any private school that opens will enroll that student. If they want to stay in the public school that they are already in, those tax dollars will still go to that school.

    But you haven't answered my question...

    Are you saying that we have to keep all of the kids that are presently in failing public schools in order to protect the teachers that are causing the school to fail?

    Here's another question...

    Are you saying that we have to keep kids in a failing school that could otherwise be put in good schools in order to cater to those that don't want/ can't go to better schools? How does that help the country's problem with lost competitiveness due to failing education?

  2. #252
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well look at it this way. If the government IS going to fund education from a central pool of money, what difference does it make where the parents choose to place the vouchers that replace direct funding to the school? It wouldn't be establishing or restricting religion so there would be no constitutional problem with the vouchers going to a parochial school.

    But no voucher is going to cover all the cost to a parochial or private school, so the parents will have to pony up the money to cover what the voucher doesn't. But that voucher might allow the parent to get their kids out of a failing public school and into a parochial or private school that they could not otherwise afford.

    If the public school loses so many of its students that it cannot open its doors, then it choses and we have eliminated one more failing school. How can that be a bad thing? It will certainly be a win for the kids.

    But if the public school decides to improve its standards and effectiveness to compete with that parochial or private school, and the parents can put the vouchers with the public school and then pay nothing additional for their kids to be well educated, then won't most parents choose to do that? How can that be a bad thing? Win win for everybody.
    The emphasis for improving education should be on making all public schools equally high quality. Resources should not be directed towards providing more choices until the quality level is excellent and equally good throughout the USA. If anything, more resources should be provided to the schools with the most difficult students such as the poor, English learners and the children of uneducated parents.

    Both vouchers and charter schools reinforce educational inequality and serve a hidden agenda to bust unions, privatize education and provide taxpayer funding for religious organizations. The voucher scheme is also a gift to those religious groups that are opposed to providing the scientific facts about evolution and sexuality in the schools.

    I compare vouchers to the following situation: A small town has problems with the quality of the water it provides to residents. Instead of directly addressing the cause of the quality problem it subsidizes coupons sent to residents so that they can get a discount on the purchase of bottled water. The result is that the wealthier people in town buy more bottled water, the poor still can't afford bottled water even with the discount, and the quality of the publicly provided water never improves because all of the money that could have been used for improvements was spent on subsidizing the coupons.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Catholic schools are also separate organizations from the Church, and they are not prohibited from promoting their religion.
    Catholic schools do not get government funds directly and shouldn't. The voucher scheme was created as a way to circumvent the first amendment to get the religionist vote and to kill public education and get rid of union employees to get the conservative/libertarian vote.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which doesn't mean they aren't a pain in the ass while they're there. Those worst behaved kids who drop out are the ones that society will be handing a monthly government check to. I'd rather see them out in the cold where they belong, having done it to themselves.
    Why not just kill them or put them in prison work camps as soon as they start acting up?

  5. #255
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The dollars were being provided to the parent of the student.
    Creative attempts to circumvent that which the Constitution prohibits.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Creative attempts to circumvent that which the Constitution prohibits.
    The constitution in no way prohibits state and local government giving money to their citizens.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Why not just kill them or put them in prison work camps as soon as they start acting up?
    If and when they break the law, we arrest them. If and when they commit a capital crime, we execute them. That's how our system works. While it's probably obvious which way they're going to go eventually, we don't proactively arrest people because we think they might do something wrong.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The emphasis for improving education should be on making all public schools equally high quality. Resources should not be directed towards providing more choices until the quality level is excellent and equally good throughout the USA. If anything, more resources should be provided to the schools with the most difficult students such as the poor, English learners and the children of uneducated parents.

    Both vouchers and charter schools reinforce educational inequality and serve a hidden agenda to bust unions, privatize education and provide taxpayer funding for religious organizations. The voucher scheme is also a gift to those religious groups that are opposed to providing the scientific facts about evolution and sexuality in the schools.

    I compare vouchers to the following situation: A small town has problems with the quality of the water it provides to residents. Instead of directly addressing the cause of the quality problem it subsidizes coupons sent to residents so that they can get a discount on the purchase of bottled water. The result is that the wealthier people in town buy more bottled water, the poor still can't afford bottled water even with the discount, and the quality of the publicly provided water never improves because all of the money that could have been used for improvements was spent on subsidizing the coupons.
    The problem with your analogy is that you are comparing buying a tangible product with changes in behavior of a far more intangible nature.

    Equality in education is of no virtue if it is all equally bad. We should have learned by now that throwing money at it is not the way to improve education. But if schools have to improve the quality of education in order to attract customers (students) to the school just as businesses have to offer a quality product to be successful, then it is a win win situation. Poor schools will close as they should. The schools that are actually educating the children will prosper as they should.

    The goal is not to achieve equality. The goal is to educate the children.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Catholic schools do not get government funds directly and shouldn't. The voucher scheme was created as a way to circumvent the first amendment to get the religionist vote and to kill public education and get rid of union employees to get the conservative/libertarian vote.
    That's your opinion. I disagree with it.
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The problem with your analogy is that you are comparing buying a tangible product with changes in behavior of a far more intangible nature.


    Equality in education is of no virtue if it is all equally bad. We should have learned by now that throwing money at it is not the way to improve education. But if schools have to improve the quality of education in order to attract customers (students) to the school just as businesses have to offer a quality product to be successful, then it is a win win situation. Poor schools will close as they should. The schools that are actually educating the children will prosper as they should.

    The goal is not to achieve equality. The goal is to educate the children.

    I made clear that improving the quality level of underperforming schools is the goal.

    When everything else is equal, better funded schools do better. Yes, it is possible to waste money and produce no results. Yes, parental involvement and the parent's educational background will have a great impact on the effectiveness of education. But a well run school with money will do better with even the toughest students than an equivalent challenged school that is underfunded. Fully funding schools with challenging students to he point that they attract the best teachers has barely been tried, but it does work when done properly. Giving up on the challenge of educating the difficult kids is not acceptable unless we want to sustain or increase the ranks of our underclass criminals and prisons. (an outcome acceptable only to selfish and heartless conservatives and libertarians) Vouchers, charter schools and other privatization schemes are all plans to help the privileged by refusing to provide poor and challenged kids with an education at the same quality as provided to everyone else.

    The goal should be to educate all children.

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