View Poll Results: Do you support school choice?

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  • Yes

    69 67.65%
  • Yes but with certain exceptions. (Please list those exceptions.)

    16 15.69%
  • No, students should only go to schools in their public school district.

    4 3.92%
  • other

    10 9.80%
  • I do not know

    3 2.94%
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Thread: Do you support school choice?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes they do, which is a result of socialized schools. I would prefer a system that allowed multiple competing firms within the same community, rather than a single socialized firm.

    I can't help but see public schools in the same way that I would look at public shoe dispensaries, public automobile dispensaries, and public grocery dispensaries.
    Its not the same thing at all. Education is more or less an infrastructure investment. Cars, shoes, and autos are consumer products. As I stated earlier in the thread, Everyone has the choice to send their kids to private school if they choose to do so, or to home school if they want. However, education funding is finite, thus it should be judiciously allocated. So why should a parent get a voucher to send their kid to a religious private school instead of public school if they are in a district that has exemplary performance and the only reason that parent wants their kid to go to a religious private school is that parent does not like the fact that creationism is not taught in science class.

    In failing inner city schools I think vouchers can have a role as well as Charter and Magnet Schools. However, there is no reason to pull money from a successful public school district just to subsidize the religious education of some fundies kids. For example, here are the stats for the public school district our kids attend:

    Average ACT Scores: 25.2
    Average SAT Composite: 1,789

    Proficient in Reading: 96%
    Proficient in Math: 96%

    In comparison, the average ACT Scores for Home Schooled kids is 22.6. The average SAT composite for home schooled kids is 1083. The point being that there are lots of public school districts with exemplary performance, so why should parents in those school districts get a taxpayer funded voucher to send their kids to a private school that doesn't even perform as well as the public school does?
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  2. #92
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Schools already do that. Communities compete against each other for residents based on the quality of their public school system.
    Sure they do - everyone knows that is why folks move to the ghetto.

    To vote with your feet is not free, it requires the income necessary to move to (or get transportation to) where these "best" schools are, otherwise you get to "choose" only what the public school bus drops you in front of.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #93
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I'm not sure of your message here.

    You seem to be objecting to the idea that choice is good and instead saying that lack of choice is good, which seems an absurd position to take.

    My stance, and the stance taken by nearly all economists, is that when firms are required to compete with other firms for customers, quality rises and prices fall. I am in favor of affordable, quality education, so I want to see schools working hard to provide better education for a lower price.
    Choice is not inherently good or bad. It is simply choice.
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Choice is not inherently good or bad.
    Why are you bringing morals (subjective) up?

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Its not the same thing at all. Education is more or less an infrastructure investment. Cars, shoes, and autos are consumer products.
    In order for me to agree with you, I'd need to know by what criteria you categorize a particular good as infrastructure.

    I can't see any good reason to establish a monopoly socialized firm as opposed to multiple competing private firms competing against each other to offer the best quality and price.

  6. #96
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Sure they do - everyone knows that is why folks move to the ghetto.

    To vote with your feet is not free, it requires the income necessary to move to (or get transportation to) where these "best" schools are, otherwise you get to "choose" only what the public school bus drops you in front of.
    I agree, that is why I do think there is a role for vouchers in a failing inner city school district. However, I do not believe that we should be paying for the religious education of some fundamentalists kids simply because they don't want to send their kids to public school. If you are in a successful public school district and you want to send your kids to a private school or home school, then you should be able to do so, but do it on your own dime. For example, its perfectly appropriate for taxpayers to pay for airports. However it is not a good use of taxpayer money to pay for some guys private airstrip because he doesn't like waiting in line at the local airport.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Most definitely YES!!!!!! It is the ONLY way to get children out of their failing schools and for them to get an good education. It would also FORCE the teachers unions to stop siding against the community the teachers serve (the operating word there is "serve") as they are responsible to give a reasonable return on the communities investment. They side against ensuring their teachers are providing for the education of the children. Where tenure is used to ensure a teachers job, even if they don't do anything to provide for a proper learning atmosphere for the children to learn. They even protect pedophiles in some cases. This would all change if there was school choice and student left to go to better schools with the tax dollars following them to those schools. Competition is everything!

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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Choice is not inherently good or bad. It is simply choice.
    Perhaps, but I prefer a system that provides people with the ability to make their own choices about how to use their limited means, not one in which these choices are made for them by others.

    By not taking away people's ability to choose, schools are required to compete with other schools for customers. When firms have to compete against other firms for customers, quality rises and prices fall.

  9. #99
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I agree, that is why I do think there is a role for vouchers in a failing inner city school district. However, I do not believe that we should be paying for the religious education of some fundamentalists kids simply because they don't want to send their kids to public school. If you are in a successful public school district and you want to send your kids to a private school or home school, then you should be able to do so, but do it on your own dime. For example, its perfectly appropriate for taxpayers to pay for airports. However it is not a good use of taxpayer money to pay for some guys private airstrip because he doesn't like waiting in line at the local airport.
    That is why vouchers must be structured to be a win-win. An easy way to help ensure that vouchers work that way is to limit them to 80% of the current public, per pupil educational costs. For each student, that opts for a voucher, the public school, that would have had to fund their education, gains (keeps) 20% of that funding but now must spend nothing on that vouchered student's education.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #100
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    Re: Do you support school choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetelestai View Post
    Most definitely YES!!!!!! It is the ONLY way to get children out of their failing schools and for them to get an good education. It would also FORCE the teachers unions to stop siding against the community the teachers serve (the operating word there is "serve") as they are responsible to give a reasonable return on the communities investment. They side against ensuring their teachers are providing for the education of the children. Where tenure is used to ensure a teachers job, even if they don't do anything to provide for a proper learning atmosphere for the children to learn. They even protect pedophiles in some cases. This would all change if there was school choice and student left to go to better schools with the tax dollars following them to those schools. Competition is everything!
    I have a question. Clarification on your opinion, actually.

    What happens to the kids whose parents can't afford to move out of a failing school? - parents with restrictive jobs, rural schools, widowed/divorced parent homes, etc. Say a school of 500 students loses half of its funding and most of its teachers because 300 kids leave; and then the school gets even worse. What do the remaining 200 kids that can't move do? Suck it up, or something?
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