View Poll Results: Do you think cars should have built-in electronic speed limit

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  • Yes, all cars ecxept "special" ones (police, swat, etc.)

    14 12.07%
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    93 80.17%
  • I don't know

    2 1.72%
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Thread: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

  1. #371
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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Here is my anecdotal story explaining my position:

    I went to Korea very early in my military career where it happened to be legal to drink prior to turning 21. Growing up in a rural area with not much to do, I had been drinking for many years anyway, but suddenly becoming "legal" was a pretty big deal so I abused it. (That said, from my perspective pretty much everyone over there abused alcohol.) When I got back to the States, I was still not 21 and it was very odd for me not to be able to go into a bar and have a drink. The law did not stop me, it simply drove it into hiding. When I finally turned 21 it was no longer a big deal and my consumption quickly turned from excessive to recreational.

    My point is that black markets exist solely because there is a demand for a good which has been deemed illegal by the government. The law does absolutely nothing to address the demand and simply forces it into extra-legal arenas. In actuality, illegality creates problems where none would have otherwise existed. For example, those involved in the drug trade cannot enforce contracts peacefully through courts or arbitration because of the illegal nature. So when contract disputes arise they must be solved through the use of violence.
    Interesting story, but the connection to traffic laws seems shaky. It is my understanding that a more specific statement of the phrase "speed kills" would not be excessive V (velocity), but delta-V (difference in velocities). That's why a car might sideswipe another while they are both going 60 mph, yet they barely receive any damage. But lots of delta-V is GOING to happen when people choose to set their own speeds as opposed to being respectful of drivers around them.

    Traffic law is not quite as simple to recognize in this aspect, but the concept equally applies. Many people have died getting hit in crosswalks and at intersections because the law gave them the right-of-way. This removed the responsibility of ensuring safety from the individuals and they assumed the area was safe. These laws give people a false sense of security. People drive excessively with or without a law telling them not to do it. Without a law in place, however, every driver must treat driving as a fluid situation in which every other vehicle and pedestrian is a potential hazard rather than assume the other drivers will yield to them.
    I call BS here. I believe that if every driver followed every traffic law on the books 100% of the time, the number of collisions and road fatalities would plummet. Doing this, or at least trying to, is THE thing that kept me safe on the road while I was a teenage driver. While some of my peers were taking incredibly stupid risks, I drove like grandpa. Yeah I very occasionally pissed off a self-entitled driver, but had they done anything to me or my car, the law would absolutely have been on my side.

    As a concession, I do favor laws that make the speed limit and the minimum speed one and the same in the left lane on freeways and rural, 4-lane highways. As I've suggested before, I have much less of a problem with other people driving 15 over on those highways than I do on surface streets.
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  2. #372
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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251
    It is my understanding that a more specific statement of the phrase "speed kills" would not be excessive V (velocity), but delta-V (difference in velocities).
    Absolutely in agreement here. However, people tend to match the speed of the other vehicles around them. Have you every driven any of the freeways in the LA basin? The speed limit is not even considered unless you're in a construction zone or the cops have to meet their quota. When people match their speed to those around them in the appropriate lanes then this is rarely a problem. It is only a problem when someone drives much slower than other traffic in the left lane(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251
    I call BS here. I believe that if every driver followed every traffic law on the books 100% of the time, the number of collisions and road fatalities would plummet.
    If everyone obeyed the fact that murder is illegal the number of murders would plummet as well. I have been called out for proposing a utopian world on many an occasion, but you are absolutely guilty of it here!

  3. #373
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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Absolutely in agreement here. However, people tend to match the speed of the other vehicles around them. Have you every driven any of the freeways in the LA basin? The speed limit is not even considered unless you're in a construction zone or the cops have to meet their quota. When people match their speed to those around them in the appropriate lanes then this is rarely a problem. It is only a problem when someone drives much slower than other traffic in the left lane(s).
    Let's talk about the surface streets for a minute, since I think we're mostly in agreement with how to deal with freeway speeds. What's the answer to people driving as fast as they feel like through residential neighborhoods? Or urban streets?

    If everyone obeyed the fact that murder is illegal the number of murders would plummet as well. I have been called out for proposing a utopian world on many an occasion, but you are absolutely guilty of it here!
    Then would you suggest legalizing murder under certain circumstances?
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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    I have driven over 100 mph many times and my wife does so routinely. Yet neither of us have been in any accident while speeding and she's never been in an accident at all. How is that possible?!

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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Let's talk about the surface streets for a minute, since I think we're mostly in agreement with how to deal with freeway speeds. What's the answer to people driving as fast as they feel like through residential neighborhoods? Or urban streets?

    What does that have to do with speed controllers on cars?

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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I have driven over 100 mph many times and my wife does so routinely. Yet neither of us have been in any accident while speeding and she's never been in an accident at all. How is that possible?!
    Dumb luck.
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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251
    What's the answer to people driving as fast as they feel like through residential neighborhoods? Or urban streets?
    I would refer you back to the Shared Space concept. While there certainly would be a few individuals who would drive recklessly (just as there are people who continue to murder), I think most people would drive at reasonable speeds for the area. In fact, top speeds would have a tendency to decline in most cases because cross traffic would have just as much right-of-way as you. Thus, people would drive a little more slowly in order to yield to crossing traffic which enters an intersection prior to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251
    Then would you suggest legalizing murder under certain circumstances?
    Murder has been – and will continue to be – one of the most widely acknowledged crimes against humanity. Status of legal or illegal is simply a codification of the underlying social custom. I’m not entirely convinced that the presence of a law making murder illegal changes the attitudes of people with regards to the act. Law or no law, murder is morally and ethically reprehensible.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104
    How is that possible?!
    Black magic!

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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Speaking of the wolf...



    Wouldn't it be good if that vehicle had speed limiter?

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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Speaking of the wolf...

    Wouldn't it be good if that vehicle had speed limiter?
    That's really sad. Though wrong-way driving is pretty rare, it poses a serious risk of life to anyone on that road at the time. I wonder if transportation departments could install those "severe tire damage" devices that enforce one-way driving, every couple of miles:


    They're usually bumpy to drive over, but that's nothing that a simple design improvement couldn't fix.
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    Re: Should cars have built-in speed limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    I would refer you back to the Shared Space concept. While there certainly would be a few individuals who would drive recklessly (just as there are people who continue to murder), I think most people would drive at reasonable speeds for the area. In fact, top speeds would have a tendency to decline in most cases because cross traffic would have just as much right-of-way as you. Thus, people would drive a little more slowly in order to yield to crossing traffic which enters an intersection prior to you.
    Not around here, they wouldn't. You ever seen how insane Georgia drivers are when traffic lights go out?

    Murder has been – and will continue to be – one of the most widely acknowledged crimes against humanity. Status of legal or illegal is simply a codification of the underlying social custom. I’m not entirely convinced that the presence of a law making murder illegal changes the attitudes of people with regards to the act. Law or no law, murder is morally and ethically reprehensible.
    Duels used to be legal, or at least, socially acceptable. People treat reckless drivers with considerably less scorn than they treat violent criminals, even though both endanger many human lives.

    Just laws form a part of a social contract, whereby individuals give up some of their freedoms in exchange for safety from the elements, from other people, and from each other. One of the single most difficult questions to answer is where that freedom-vs.-safety equilibrium lies--and contrary to what some may say, that is NOT a false choice. I think that's one reason Europe has such law-abiding citizens: They feel that the laws are decided by their rightfully elected people, and thus most of the time, they try to obey those laws. For example, I was in London many years ago and watched an ambulance try to get through one of those narrow one-way streets. No way, I thought to myself, is he getting through any time soon. But I was proven wrong. Why? Because EVERY SINGLE CAR in its way pulled over WITHOUT HESITATION. None of this "I gotta beat the traffic light" or "Why can't he just go in the left lane" crap. No. They pulled over. They gave up a miniscule amount of their personal liberty so that someone that they didn't even know could potentially increase his or her odds of surviving that day. And once the ambulance was gone, they proceeded on their way. See, that kind of attitude is the balance that I want our citizens to desire. Would it really kill us on crowded, urban streets to obey the traffic laws? Is it not true that if people were to choose to all drive 35 mph on an urban street instead of 45 mph, then all other factors being equal, the average stopping distance would decrease? That the rapid change in kinetic energy upon impact would be much less? I think so.

    But what about people who feel like they could safely fast here? Again, as I've said before, I'm much more open to this line of reasoning out on the open road and much less so in town. If someone hates their commute because of all the traffic, then they should consider moving closer to their place of work. Why? Because every additional mile you travel creates a little extra strain on the road and, past a certain threshold, on other drivers.

    Here's the short version of what I think should be done about speeds. Note that these are general numbers and are subject to exceptions, particularly on windy and hilly roads.

    -30 mph on side streets in town and residential streets
    -40 mph on urban main streets
    -50-60 mph on suburban, multi-lane highways
    -60 mph on in-town freeways and rural, two-lane highways
    -70 mph on rural, four-lane highways
    -85 mph on rural freeways

    Also have "no slowpoke" rules, where the speed limit and minimum speed on multi-lane highways are one and the same in the left lane.

    One other thing while we're here: Get rid of most stop signs. About 90% of them are unnecessary and could be replaced by a yield sign. Yield signs still require a YIELDING of all right-of-way to anyone in the way.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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