• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are you pro life or pro choice?

Are you pro life or pro choice?


  • Total voters
    87
Pro-choice, but with some serious reservations. Late term, not down with that. If it has discernible human features...it's a human. If it's that far along, see it thru and get the adoption process going.
 
If I am pro anything in this regard, it would be pro the selection of language that does not represent such simple-mindedness by way of framing the issue.

When complex moral issues are reduced to a child's level of understanding simply in order to create an impression, only simple and impressionable children fall for it.
 
Redress...here's the actual poll...and at close inspection it's not all of the read'em and weep percentages that the CHRISTIAN POST would love us to believe. Christians who won't take the time to carefully read all three pages and consider all the variables will love it....

Abortion | Gallup Historical Trends

That's not fair and you know it, RM. There's no way in hell that Fox News can air a video of a graph. Even if they could, they'd have to explain it and that would be impossible in a 30 second segment.

If it isn't on Fox why bother to try and, god forbid, do a bit of research and analysis by reading on the internet(s)?
 
Last edited:
translation: the studies list some reasons without motives and you ASSUME and MAKE up the rest

many have abortions because they feel obligated by there responsibilities and believe it is the MORAL thing to do

now im not saying they are right but im saying is your OPINION is certainly no better than theirs and your judgement is based on nothign but opinion.

also i havent come across one single person here or in real life who thinks ZEF isnt alive, not one

Being alive and being a human life are not the same thing. As is so often argued by the pro-abortion crowd. And my opinion is based on those studies I have read. You can google that information as easily as I can, but that isn't important. As a general rule and allowing for the possibility of exception, I don't express opinions that are not informed. But I don't expect anybody else, most especially those who disagree with my opinions, to accept or appreciate that.
 
This was my response to another poster in another related thread. Please do not feel that it applies to you...it's just an explanation.

Yes I am aware of that rationale, Lursa. And again I don't see it as my prerogative to judge another in this issue. But my personal conviction is that we are responsible for those we invite or permit to enter into our jurisdiction. When we invite/allow a passenger into our vehicle or home or place of business, whether or not that person is convenient or wanted, we have a responsibility for his/her welfare. I feel the same way about the unwanted pregnancy. Any fertile woman who engages in consensual sex is allowing for the possibility of a pregnancy. And if it happens at an inconvenient time, there was a time when the huge majority of women accepted the baby as a human life for which she was responsible. And she accepted the consequences of her choices and either raised it herself, with or without benefit of help from the father, or if she was unable to give her child the blessings of love and nurture, she gave him/her up to loving parents who would. Either choice comes from pure love and reverence for life.

I am fully aware of valid reasons when abortion is the moral and ethical choice. But in my point of view, inconvenience is not a moral or ethical justification. And if we returned to a culture of life rather than convenience, I think we would return to a time when there were far fewer unwanted pregnancies than what we see now.
 
I support the legalization of abortion for all three trimesters.
 
I support the legalization of abortion for all three trimesters.

My argument is not a legal one. My argument is a moral and ethical one. And it is made to those who know that what is legal is not necessarily moral or ethical.
 
My argument is not a legal one. My argument is a moral and ethical one. And it is made to those who know that what is legal is not necessarily moral or ethical.
Are you sure that you responded to the correct person? I never saw your argument before you replied to me. Or are you trying to show me your argument?
 
There is no moral high ground here particularly...unless you consider that some would demand the govt have the power to take rights away from a woman to serve a fetus that might not even reach term anyway.

But do you think that the majority of women that choose abortion (and the majority of women in general do not choose abortion) make that decision casually? Or without understanding the gravity & implications of all their options?

My feeling from popular culture is that some do and some don't. I don't think there is a decisive majority either way.
 
Polls are showing the pendulum has swung and more people are pro life then pro choice.

Pro Life: 11

Pro Choice: 38

But anyways I agree pro life is definitely the majority in this poll. :lol:
 
My argument is not a legal one. My argument is a moral and ethical one. And it is made to those who know that what is legal is not necessarily moral or ethical.

Piss poor dodge. Those who have made the crucial decisions are quite moral people- and you have ZERO proof they lack it. fact is moral and ethical arguments are no more 'correct' than a legal one as what is moral and ethical is quite variable. The Old Testament had ZERO problem with abortion.

One could argue moral and ethical is quite subjective.
 
And you're views are fascist like Hitler. Wanna murder some people doing pot too? We know you support murdering doctors performing LEGAL abortions.

The person who supports infanticide is trying to call me a fascist, thats rich.
 
The problem is a baby in the womb can not make that decision.

I respect your view and your right to petition for the law to be changed.

Since I don't think it ever will be, I think your side would do better to make sure programs for young mothers are fully funded, and line up in front of adoption centers instead of abortion clinics.
 
Yeah, see, your colloquialism and "Internet" knowlege are very convenient. Slang...catchy and inflammatory?

The only people who find the term abortionist to be offensive are abortionists such as yourself who are ashamed of supporting something so vile and inhumane as abortion. Its like illegal aliens and their supporters trying to use the term undocumented immigrant to hide the illegality of what they are doing.You abortionists use the term prochoice to hide the fact you support legalized abortion. If you are not ashamed about supporting legalized on demand abortion then you should have no problem being called an abortionist or pro-abortion instead of hiding being the term prochoice.

Here are the real, traditional sources with definitions for that word and not one includes 'a person who advocates for abortion.'


The dictionaries I use are also traditional.


From one of your sources

Abortionist - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
2 ENTRIES FOUND:

abortionist
proabortion
Abortionist - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of PROABORTION
: favoring the legalization of abortion
— pro–abor·tion·ist noun
First Known Use of PROABORTION
1972
Rhymes with PROABORTION
disproportion, in proportion, reapportion
pro·abor·tion
adjective \(ˈ)prō-ə-ˈbȯr-shən\ (Medical Dictionary)
Medical Definition of PROABORTION
: favoring the legalization of abortion
 
Last edited:
My wife and I have lived our lives "Pro-life," and we have 3 wonderful sons. I am, without a doubt, pro-life.

But it's not my place to force my positions upon others. It's none of my business.

We all have to answer for our deeds and actions. But nobody has to answer to me.
 
if this is true only those that want abortion banned with no exceptions is pro-life then :shrug:

There is this part " especially abortion-on-demand, illegal; antiabortion: right-to-life advocates." So you can support certain exceptions like if carrying a baby to 50% viability will cause the mother's death.

Right to life | Define Right to life at Dictionary.com

adjective
pertaining to or advocating laws making abortion, especially abortion-on-demand, illegal; antiabortion

Abortion on demand | Define Abortion on demand at Dictionary.com

noun
1.
the right of a woman to have an abortion during the first six months of a pregnancy.
2.
an abortion performed on a woman solely at her own request.
 
Last edited:
When it come to pro life or pro abortion how do you stand?

Well first off, your title is more accurate than your post. We should label each group as they label themselves, because both labels best represent their view point and thought process on the issue. Pro-life and pro-choice.

Personally, I consider myself neither. Some, like Jamesrage (whose definition means anyone supporting legal abortion in the case of rape, incest, or life of the mother would be "pro-choice) would likely consider me Pro-choice. However, I'm far more apt to vote for a pro-life candidate than I am a pro-choice candidate, though I'm not inclined to vote for EITHER candidate if they make that a primary point of their campaign.

My personal view is that this is an issue that is not feasible to truly answer, as there is no magical light bulb that appears over a womans belly that goes "DING! I should be considered a human with full vested rights".

As such, my PERSONAL view...which I acknowledge would almost never happen because both sides are far too entrenched in their very specific view points and I recognize that the world view of each side would view parts of my suggestion with unquestioned disdained...would be as follows:

First Trimester - Benefit of the doubt is bestowed upon the woman as opposed to the fetus. Abortion is legal in all circumstances during this trimester.

Second Trimester - Benefit of the doubt leans heavier towards the fetus. Abortion is legal only in the case of a reported case of Rape or Incest, or the mother's life being in danger.

Third Trimester - Benefit of the doubt leands entirely towards the fetus. Abortion is legal only in the case of the mother's life being in danger OR if there is reasonable evidence that a minor's rape/incest was hidden until this point (IE, if a father impregnated a daughter, and social services did not discover this fact until the third trimester).

If the woman doesn't know in the first trimester, then that's on them. There's is almost no situation where a woman will have sex and not be aware of it, outside of rape, so the notion that "They may not know" before the end of the first trimester holds no sway with me.

My views from the second trimester forward follows in line with much of what it seems the majority of Pro-Life (Or I guess in Jamesrage's view, Pro-Choicer's who aren't as extreme?) individuals want. Where I differ from them is a willingness to allow for it to occur within the first trimester, because I do not believe this to be a clear cut situation nor do I think it can be equated directly to "baby murder" given the distint difference of the physical nature of the situation.
 
Polls are showing the pendulum has swung and more people are pro life then pro choice.


The problem is, of course, that those polls are questionable due to the very thing Jamesrage just pointed out.

"Pro-Life" means a lot of things to a lot of different people.

If given a poll with only the choices of "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice", I'd go pro-choice.

If give a poll with only choices of "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice", I imagine most people who believe it should be illegal except for cases of rape, incest, or health of hte mother would hcoose "pro-life"

But according to some, like Jamesrage, that would be a "pro-choice" person. Which begs the question as to what the definition of "pro-life" those polls are using.
 
I have said this before but I believe the killing of and infant in the womb is the mother's life is not endangered is the most horrible crime one human bean can commit on another.

Pro-life except in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother's life could be in danger. Anything else read up on birth control.

These two posts highlight the issue with the "pro-life" or "pro-choice" poll and what it could mean. Both of you are in favor of some level of lawful abortions, which per Jamesrage's definition makes you both pro-choice. Yet I'm sure you'd both self identify as "pro-life" in such a poll.
 
Abortion is not victimless. We all know that a human being is killed, violently, and we all know that is rather a permanent harm. Therefore, it makes no sense for anyone to employ that casual, "smoking" type argument above for an act we know to be aggressive and intentionally harmful against a human victim.

Here's your problem JayDubya, you're thinking everyone must have the same view point you do and you're judging other peoples veiws out of an assumption they think like you...which is a poor assumption.

I do agree, most people would stipulate that a human is being killed there. I'd also stipulate that there are numerous instances where society dictates it's perfectly legitimate to kill a human....self defense, war, punishment for law violations, etc. You're trying to paint it as some kind of standard where somehow we, as a society, never allow contextual situations that legitimaze killing of a human. We absolutely DO.

While I would wager most agree that a fetus is human, there's GREAT disagreement as to whether or not it should be considered a fully "Living" human, or whether or not it should be considered one with full vested rights, or whether or not it's symbiotic prescence within a woman justifies a balancing level of competing rights similar to the principle that is used in things like Self Defense.

And beyond that...yes, as crazy as it may seem, some people don't consider a fetus at any given time to be "human" in the traditional sense of the word anymore than they'd consider a sperm or egg to be simply because it has the capacity to become one. I don't personally agree, but if one approaches it with that mindset then those type of analogies are not so crazy.
 
In other words, you disagree with the Catholic Church. Does this make you a bad catholic navy? or just a Cafeteria one?

Care to provide a link specifically to what you're suggesting the Catholic Church's view on this is and how it differs from Navy's. Since you're the one making the claim I'm sure you wouldn't mind providing a link and explanation
 
Back
Top Bottom