View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice?

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  • Pro Life

    34 33.01%
  • Pro choice

    69 66.99%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice?

  1. #301
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    very good thank you for further proving me right, see the word especially, that word doesnt EXCLUDE people who dont feel that way it means they are especially included hence the comma and the word.

    so again the facts remains if thats all we are going by then anybody who allows legal abortion for any reason is not pro-life

    sorry iff you want to be irrational an illogical then this is the way it is, by definition you supplied and only

    so NO by definition you cant support any legality of abortion if you are pro-life, thank you for proving how absurd your claim is again
    The definitions I provided prove that you can support certain exceptions and still be pro-life. The only one being absurd is you.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #302
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The definitions I provided prove that you can support certain exceptions and still be pro-life. The only one being absurd is you.
    Dictionaries only record common usage. They do not enforce particular usage. One of the consequences of “recording common usage” is that many definitions tend to change as the generations pass. Words can even become obsolete.
    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Hanging your hat entirely on the CURRENT legality of something you want to be legal and others want to make illegal does not constitute a salient argument. At all.
    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    What is "alive" and how does it apply to the fetus?

  3. #303
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You abortionists use words like the war on women and other nonsense.So you have no room to accuse others of using emotional and inflammatory language.You support legalizes on demand abortion, You should own up to it instead of trying to hide behind labels that disassociate what you stand for.You support legalized on demand abortion.If you do not find abortion to be inhumane and vile then you should have no problem calling yourself pro-abortion or an abortionist.

    I 100% support the bold and never denied it. And I use rational arguments and language to support my reasons...not drama and emotion.

    It's creepy and weird to invest your emotions in fantasy fetuses that may never even be born and that you dont actually even know exist. (Hence Roe vs Wade being based on privacy issues) It's self-righteous and *easy* to do so since it doesnt affect you in any way...not like actually doing something to HELP pregnant single women/moms, or volunteer in social services to actually HELP the women and children that are in financial and/or abusive situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #304
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It is not a person? When does it become a person? What point in the life of that human is less important than any other part? The conception when the sperm fertilizes the egg? The zygote? The embryo? The fetus? Two weeks before the assigned birth date? The newborn infant drawing its first breath outside the womb? Which stage can we eliminate and still produce a person?

    Everything any of us are or will ever be as a person is already present in that fertilized egg. Nothing will be added to or subtracted from the potential in that DNA. It is the beginning of a human being, a person, no less important than any other stage in order for that person to be who he/she is.

    And in my opinion, that should be the attitude of us all. There indeed are valid, moral, ethical reasons that a pregnancy should be terminated. But each time, we should always be conscious that it is the life of a person that we are ending.
    It is not a person. It's human, not a person. A corpse is human, it's not a person. DNA has nothing to do with personhood.

    Our legal system recognizes someone as a person when they are BORN. When do you think a fetus should be considered a person who we recognize to have the same rights as born individuals?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #305
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But even here, and I'm pretty sure you and Grip would concur, that there can be a valid reason to end a pregnancy. If it is the life of the mother at stake and the only way to save her is to abort that baby--such instances are rare--but it could be the best choice. Most especially when there are other children at stake who need their mother.
    I think that is a reasonable stance on the issue, and as you said, it is very rare, and also, if a fetus is to the age of viability, there's likely a reasonable chance that it can also be delivered via C-section. Instances of a true emergent situation, where there must be a choice made between the mother and the baby, are rare.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  6. #306
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Now I might be inclined to be even more protective towards viable life if our species were facing population problems or extinction. But as it is we're facing the opposite with over population and lack of resources. Octomoms, fertility drugs - techniques and families having too many children to afford are all putting more pressure on society. It's simply not the world it was a 100 years ago where a lot of children could help the family provide.
    Imo, the supply and demand of people is not a reasonable method for determining the value of a life.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  7. #307
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It is not a person. It's human, not a person. A corpse is human, it's not a person. DNA has nothing to do with personhood.

    Our legal system recognizes someone as a person when they are BORN. When do you think a fetus should be considered a person who we recognize to have the same rights as born individuals?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I 100% support the bold and never denied it. And I use rational arguments and language to support my reasons...not drama and emotion.

    It's creepy and weird to invest your emotions in fantasy fetuses that may never even be born and that you dont actually even know exist. (Hence Roe vs Wade being based on privacy issues) It's self-righteous and *easy* to do so since it doesnt affect you in any way...not like actually doing something to HELP pregnant single women/moms, or volunteer in social services to actually HELP the women and children that are in financial and/or abusive situations.
    I can't wait until the day where we find intelligent extraterrestrial life forms who don't use the K-strategy reproduction but the r-strategy reproduction instead.

    If I can right now at the moment I would make it so instead of women giving birth to one or two humans but to ten instead at a time. We will see how long all these ''potential'' and ''human dignity'' arguments last for.
    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Hanging your hat entirely on the CURRENT legality of something you want to be legal and others want to make illegal does not constitute a salient argument. At all.
    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    What is "alive" and how does it apply to the fetus?

  8. #308
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Imo, the supply and demand of people is not a reasonable method for determining the value of a life.
    The law of supply and demand applies to all life forms on this planet. After all, we don't find mosquito life valuable because it's extremely common.

    Now our population numbers are well over 8 billion so there is no reason to think now that every human that implants in the womb must be carried full term for some reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Hanging your hat entirely on the CURRENT legality of something you want to be legal and others want to make illegal does not constitute a salient argument. At all.
    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    What is "alive" and how does it apply to the fetus?

  9. #309
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Imo, the supply and demand of people is not a reasonable method for determining the value of a life.
    I thought that might come up and I don't draw the line at supply and demand, simply consider all implications. We can say we wouldn't be moved by other considerations but that's simply not true. Look at how far modern medicine has changed the equation on when a fetus is viable. And if the planet were so over populated that it drastically affected the quality of existence they would probably be sterilizing people. Giving birth and procreating has no absolutes in an ever changing civilization.

    I personally wouldn't have deprived Terri Schiavo of water and food till she died. But that's just me.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #310
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I 100% support the bold and never denied it. And I use rational arguments and language to support my reasons...not drama and emotion.

    It's creepy and weird to invest your emotions in fantasy fetuses that may never even be born and that you dont actually even know exist. (Hence Roe vs Wade being based on privacy issues) It's self-righteous and *easy* to do so since it doesnt affect you in any way...not like actually doing something to HELP pregnant single women/moms, or volunteer in social services to actually HELP the women and children that are in financial and/or abusive situations.
    Fantasy fetuses?Is this a new term invented by abortionists to dehumanize abortion victims?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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