View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice?

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  • Pro Life

    34 33.01%
  • Pro choice

    69 66.99%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice?

  1. #291
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    How is it disrespectful to women to disallow abortion? You know that there are women who do not believe in abortion as well, are they equally disrespectful to their own gender, or is this just a convenient argument you can use on me due to my gender?

    .
    It's disrespectful because you think it doesnt matter how that pregnancy or infant if born, can affect a woman's future. You minimize her right to make the most of her own future.

    Well sorry, but thankfully the law says she doesnt have to 'suck it up' and suffer or struggle to finish school or develop her career or be able to devote herself and her $$ to the children she already has.

    Of course there are success stories. Lots. And just as many families that end up on public assistance that we have to pay for? And women that never manage to get out of hourly unskilled job? More single mothers that have a harder time finding a husband because she has kids? Kids that are abused by frustrated, stressed single mothers? Kids that end up in the 'system' and then also never reach their potential in life? Yes...a cycle.

    Precious gift? Again...that's YOUR judgement...apply it to your own life. I believe in quality of life, not quantity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #292
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But for those of us who know that is a human life, it is pertinent is it not? The infant, the small child, even older children are not able or not always competent to make the proper choices re their welfare either, and it is incumbent upon we who are responsible for them to make choices for them that are in their best interest whether or not that is easy, comfortable, or convenient for us. For the pro lifer, that is just as true for the one too young to be outside the womb.
    It is a human, but it is not a 'person.'

    And I think it's great to consider it whatever you want if it is your kid and you and your family and friends are happily anticipating a baby.

    For those of you to whom that is 'pertinent,' you are free to act on that and have and treasure that baby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #293
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Here's how I would address that. How do you feel about people who throw away food? Same exact thing. You have people starving all over the world, and people throw food away like it's trash. Same thing with money. You have people living hand to mouth, you have people going bankrupt because their kid is sick, and on the other hand you have people who are so rich they buy gold plated toilet seats.

    All these things to me speak to a lack of human dignity.

    I don't think abortion is murder, but it fits in to the narrative I'm talking about, I don't like our throwaway culture and I would like to see a greater respect for life and human dignity.
    There is no shortage of humans and despite abortion being legal for 40 yrs....more women still decide to GIVE birth and there are plenty of people....dont need that drama.

    To me, to put up roadblocks that *can be avoided* in front of women who deserve to fulfill their own potentials in life...that is a great waste. These women are already born and part of society...how wasteful is it to insist they take a path that may damage that? It should be their decision alone. You basically tell them they are not as important as a fetus...an unknown that may miscarry or have defects. Is that how you make important decisions in your own life? Risking the known for the unknown?

    Just to *believe* that strangers or the govt should have the right to demand a woman not have a choice shows a great lack of respect for women. A society of strong women CAPABLE of being good mothers speaks to great human dignity. They wont become that if they have unwanted roadblocks in their lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #294
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Could you elaborate on that seemingly diametric contradiction?
    Yes, it is a contradiction, and I realize that. The reason that I can be pro-life personally, and pro-choice in my voting, is because I don't expect other people to live up to my own ethical standards, and because when a woman (other than myself) is pregnant, I had nothing to do with that pregnancy or her body. She is responsible for how she conducts herself, and not me. I am responsible for myself, and for those which I had a hand in creating. I think that a fetus is a person. If another woman does not have the instinct to imagine what the life she is carrying will become, then I actually feel pity for her and for that unborn baby, but that action which I consider the taking of a life, does not leave blood on my hands. In the abortion issue, and when it comes to individual rights, a choice must be made between the mother and the baby, as to who has preference. The mother is already here- she is the one who made the choices leading to that pregnancy, thus she is the one responsible for the course of action in dealing with her own situation.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  5. #295
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Yes, it is a contradiction, and I realize that. The reason that I can be pro-life personally, and pro-choice in my voting, is because I don't expect other people to live up to my own ethical standards, and because when a woman (other than myself) is pregnant, I had nothing to do with that pregnancy or her body. She is responsible for how she conducts herself, and not me. I am responsible for myself, and for those which I had a hand in creating. I think that a fetus is a person. If another woman does not have the instinct to imagine what the life she is carrying will become, then I actually feel pity for her and for that unborn baby, but that action which I consider the taking of a life, does not leave blood on my hands. In the abortion issue, and when it comes to individual rights, a choice must be made between the mother and the baby, as to who has preference. The mother is already here- she is the one who made the choices leading to that pregnancy, thus she is the one responsible for the course of action in dealing with her own situation.

    I've always considered myself somewhere in the middle with a belief in similar responsibility. I don't believe in abortion personally though if it's not my wife and her pregnancy it's not our business completely. I do believe that once the fetus has reached a certain level of development that abortion shouldn't be allowed.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #296
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It is a human, but it is not a 'person.'

    And I think it's great to consider it whatever you want if it is your kid and you and your family and friends are happily anticipating a baby.

    For those of you to whom that is 'pertinent,' you are free to act on that and have and treasure that baby.
    It is not a person? When does it become a person? What point in the life of that human is less important than any other part? The conception when the sperm fertilizes the egg? The zygote? The embryo? The fetus? Two weeks before the assigned birth date? The newborn infant drawing its first breath outside the womb? Which stage can we eliminate and still produce a person?

    Everything any of us are or will ever be as a person is already present in that fertilized egg. Nothing will be added to or subtracted from the potential in that DNA. It is the beginning of a human being, a person, no less important than any other stage in order for that person to be who he/she is.

    And in my opinion, that should be the attitude of us all. There indeed are valid, moral, ethical reasons that a pregnancy should be terminated. But each time, we should always be conscious that it is the life of a person that we are ending.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #297
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I've always considered myself somewhere in the middle with a belief in similar responsibility. I don't believe in abortion personally though if it's not my wife and her pregnancy it's not our business completely. I do believe that once the fetus has reached a certain level of development that abortion shouldn't be allowed.
    Same here. If there's a reasonable chance of viability outside the womb, I don't support the choice to abort at all.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  8. #298
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Same here. If there's a reasonable chance of viability outside the womb, I don't support the choice to abort at all.
    But even here, and I'm pretty sure you and Grip would concur, that there can be a valid reason to end a pregnancy. If it is the life of the mother at stake and the only way to save her is to abort that baby--such instances are rare--but it could be the best choice. Most especially when there are other children at stake who need their mother.

    However pro life any of us may be, we cannot refuse the blessings of medical science that can now save those who routinely died in child birth. There are ethical, moral, valid reasons to take the life of that baby. But I long to return to a society that would do that only out of extreme necessity and never for convenience. That should be the cultural norm and not one forced upon us by activism or legal action.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 01-24-14 at 04:16 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #299
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It's rhetoric...emotional and inflammatory. If you need that to make an argument, you have a weak argument and it indicates an emotional rather than rational view of the issue.

    Interestingly, you use many such emotional and inflammatory words...further weakening your argument and showing that you really cannot think clearly on the issue...unable to separate facts from personally investing emotions in other peoples' fetuses that as far as you know...dont even exist...and due to the vagaries of biology and gestation, may never even be born.
    You abortionists use words like the war on women and other nonsense.So you have no room to accuse others of using emotional and inflammatory language.You support legalizes on demand abortion, You should own up to it instead of trying to hide behind labels that disassociate what you stand for.You support legalized on demand abortion.If you do not find abortion to be inhumane and vile then you should have no problem calling yourself pro-abortion or an abortionist.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #300
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Same here. If there's a reasonable chance of viability outside the womb, I don't support the choice to abort at all.
    Now I might be inclined to be even more protective towards viable life if our species were facing population problems or extinction. But as it is we're facing the opposite with over population and lack of resources. Octomoms, fertility drugs - techniques and families having too many children to afford are all putting more pressure on society. It's simply not the world it was a 100 years ago where a lot of children could help the family provide.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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