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Are you pro life or pro choice?

Are you pro life or pro choice?


  • Total voters
    87
Why are you dehumanizing people in the fetal stage of their lifespan? Sure those people can make decisions. Just like you and me. I just takes them longer to do it. But I also realize that trying to argue that point with a girl who has chosen to "terminate a pregnancy" (AKA murder a baby) and any guy who has pressured them to do that, is futile. It may be too hard for them to admit to themselves, let alone others that they did wrong. It's too hurtful for them to admit it. To those people I say... [Truth will set you free

False arguments and poor tactics. :roll:

First the fetus is not dehumanized, it is a fetus. No a fetus doesn't have the capability to make a decision and we accept that in the born who have mental defects that render they mental state below the level on consent- are you saying small children are capable of consenting to sex? Is that 'dehumanizing' children? Or recognizing the capability just isn't there.

There is a series of stages a fetus goes through before being viable. there is a series of stages a child goes through in mental capacity- you would know this if you raised kids and put up with the 'Why' or 'NO' stage. Teens and young adults are still in 'development' so claiming an early term fetus is a human and fully vested in human rights is absurd.

And yes the truth will set you free....:peace
 
Why are you dehumanizing people in the fetal stage of their lifespan?

Sure those people can make decisions. Just like you and me. I just takes them longer to do it.

This is just another common irrationality found in pro-lifers....and just written out by 2 people in the last 2 pages: that a fetus could "make a choice."

@_@

And this is a point you attempt to use to change (rational) people's minds??

............................
 
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Because I believe that women are more important than fetuses and deserving of respect for the choices they make regarding their own futures?

Yes, we disagree.
 
Because I believe that women are more important than fetuses and deserving of respect for the choices they make regarding their own futures?

Yes, we disagree.
Seems kinda selfish IMO, to put into nice terms that won't get me banned.
 
Seems kinda selfish IMO, to put into nice terms that won't get me banned.


You think fetuses can make choices....so your opinions are already in question.
 
You think fetuses can make choices....so your opinions are already in question.
Actually, that is not what I think.

Carefully read what I posted if you want to know what I think.
 
Actually, that is not what I think.

Carefully read what I posted if you want to know what I think.

I did...and their 'future ability' to make a choice is just as useless. They may never even reach term. So it's low return and poor risk to put their 'possible' abilities above those of a woman who can already exercise her abilities.
 
I did...and their 'future ability' to make a choice is just as useless. They may never even reach term. So it's low return and poor risk to put their 'possible' abilities above those of a woman who can already exercise her abilities.
That statement is selfish, childish and arrogant.
 
That statement is selfish, childish and arrogant.

Standing up for women's rights?

While you demand some invisible fetus you dont even know exists and doesnt affect you in any way should be more important than women?

Er....look in the mirror and read your response.
 
It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with people like you.

You mean the ones that dont imagine fetuses making decisions?

You're the one that went to name calling when I clarified my position on women's rights.
 
Because I believe that women are more important than fetuses and deserving of respect for the choices they make regarding their own futures?

Yes, we disagree.


I think we both stated our cases, and there's really no sense in repeating the same arguments over and over. It's a controversial issue, opinions are bound to differ.
 
Yes, it is a contradiction, and I realize that. The reason that I can be pro-life personally, and pro-choice in my voting, is because I don't expect other people to live up to my own ethical standards, and because when a woman (other than myself) is pregnant, I had nothing to do with that pregnancy or her body. She is responsible for how she conducts herself, and not me. I am responsible for myself, and for those which I had a hand in creating. I think that a fetus is a person. If another woman does not have the instinct to imagine what the life she is carrying will become, then I actually feel pity for her and for that unborn baby, but that action which I consider the taking of a life, does not leave blood on my hands. In the abortion issue, and when it comes to individual rights, a choice must be made between the mother and the baby, as to who has preference. The mother is already here- she is the one who made the choices leading to that pregnancy, thus she is the one responsible for the course of action in dealing with her own situation.
Please don't assume I'm ignoring you. You've made some profound statements and I'm not really sure how to respond just yet. You are making me think.
 
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I am pro life 100% but fully understand how abortion is sometimes necessary as well as being the moral and ethical choice. I would never vote for abortion to be outlawed. And because I don't know what is in the heart of or the situation of any woman, I will not presume to judge the choices others make. I agree that the poll options do not allow for the various shades of gray that exist within the issue.

But yes, I want to return to a culture of life in which it is not almost automatic that the unwanted child will be killed.

So you are pro choice and you choose no.

I have similar (not exactly the same) feelings.
 
I want to return to a culture of life in which it is not almost automatic that the unwanted child will be killed.

Do you honestly think we live in some other type of society?

Are you witnessing automatic killing of unwanted children?

Or perhaps, is that a HUGE exageration of what's actually "real"?


I'm guessing, but I'd say the VAST VAST VAST majority of people in the USofA don't "automatically kill an unwanted baby".
 
The law of supply and demand applies to all life forms on this planet. After all, we don't find mosquito life valuable because it's extremely common.

Now our population numbers are well over 8 billion so there is no reason to think now that every human that implants in the womb must be carried full term for some reason.

In my opinion, to not understand that the unborn baby, at any stage of his/her development, is a human life is to result in the attitude expressed by GEIxBattleRifle up there who seems to think eight billion people is sufficient and therefore life is expendable.

If you read my post more carefully, I already acknowledge the unborn are humans. Your side hasn't convinced the rest of us why every time a human implants in the womb it's potential must be fulfilled.

I truly wish that we were R-Strategists to begin with so everyone can see quickly how absurd the ''potential'' argument is that pro lifers commoningly use. Oh well wait until we find intelligent extraterrestrial life that uses that method and we will how the ''potential'' argument holds then.
 
So you are pro choice and you choose no.

I have similar (not exactly the same) feelings.

I am pro choice only that I think abortion cannot be realistically or ethically banned without allowing for certain necessary exceptions. But I support 100% those communities that adopt a culture of life and for ethical reasons restrict abortion to allow only those certain necessary exceptions. I oppose the federal government imposing a restriction on abortion or forbidding restriction on abortion because social ethics and/or engineering should never be the prerogative of the federal government other than to secure our rights that include life, liberty, etc.

Roe v Wade, as SCOTUS intended it, was to make abortion legal without exception in the first trimester, to give the state authority to impose some restriction in the second trimester, and to impose a lot of restriction in the third trimester. While I oppose the SCOTUS making law and therefore oppose Roe v Wage on those grounds, I do think it a reasonable policy at the local level. And then I would like the culture to return to a time when aborting a healthy baby was not something 'good' people saw as the first option when an unwanted pregnancy happened. And that most doctors, in keeping with their Hippocratic oath, wouldn't do it.
 
The definitions I provided prove that you can support certain exceptions and still be pro-life. The only one being absurd is you.

nope facts are with me and not you and proving you wrong again

you can try and cherry pick dfinition all you want and push your opinion as fact but it will continue to fail and so will your opinion of who is pro-choice/pro-life :shrug:

we've been through this many times before and each and every time facts destroyed your opinion
 
Yes, it is a contradiction, and I realize that. The reason that I can be pro-life personally, and pro-choice in my voting, is because I don't expect other people to live up to my own ethical standards, and because when a woman (other than myself) is pregnant, I had nothing to do with that pregnancy or her body. She is responsible for how she conducts herself, and not me. I am responsible for myself, and for those which I had a hand in creating. I think that a fetus is a person. If another woman does not have the instinct to imagine what the life she is carrying will become, then I actually feel pity for her and for that unborn baby, but that action which I consider the taking of a life, does not leave blood on my hands. In the abortion issue, and when it comes to individual rights, a choice must be made between the mother and the baby, as to who has preference. The mother is already here- she is the one who made the choices leading to that pregnancy, thus she is the one responsible for the course of action in dealing with her own situation.
The thing is, the child is also already here too. And if the mother is in jeopardy of losing her life or being seriously and permanently injured as a result of the pregnancy then I think it is a legitimate case of self-defense. Otherwise it's not an either/or proposition in the first place. Both can survive.
 
The thing is, the child is also already here too. And if the mother is in jeopardy of losing her life or being seriously and permanently injured as a result of the pregnancy then I think it is a legitimate case of self-defense. Otherwise it's not an either/or proposition in the first place. Both can survive.

your preaching to the choir my friend.
 
I didn't vote. IMO the issue isn't black and white and under different circumstances I am both. Do I believe in abortion for specific circumstances, yes. Do I believe in abortion as a form of common contreception, no. You'll find me somewhere between these limits.
 
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