View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice?

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  • Pro Life

    34 33.01%
  • Pro choice

    69 66.99%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice?

  1. #271
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    I find it sadly ironic that the same people who are "militantly anti-choice" also appear to be the same people who don't care about "collateral damage" deaths of children when drone strikes are used. Even more shocking when it's in countries we're not officially at war with.

    They also seem to be the same people who justify the attack on Iraq in 2003, and our continued military presence and use of weapons on multiple fronts in the ME regardless of the actual "threat" to the mainland USofA.

    Some are even supportive of the idea of attacking Iran.


    In many regards - there are quite a few "pro-life" people here (maybe not all) who would be much better described as "selectively pro-life" .

  2. #272
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by breeves85 View Post
    Seriously? Explain how being pro choice isn't the same as pro abortion?
    Uh, well, people who are pro-choice don't care whether any given woman aborts or not. That's up to her. That's why it's called "pro-choice." "Pro-abortion" implies that they believe a woman should abort. That is not an accurate description of the position.

  3. #273
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    I find it sadly ironic that the same people who are "militantly anti-choice"
    Nobody is anti-choice.

    People calling themselves "pro-choice" is the height of arrogance and intellectual dishonesty. They really don't want the child to have any choice whatsoever.

    Just kill the ****ing baby whether they like it or not. After all, It's just a clump of cells like you or me. Do you think I should be able to choose to kill you on a whim?
    Last edited by Muhammed; 01-24-14 at 10:05 AM.

  4. #274
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Nobody is anti-choice.

    People calling themselves "pro-choice" is the height of arrogance and intellectual dishonesty. They really don't want the child to have any choice whatsoever.

    Just kill the ****ing baby whether they like it or not. After all, It's just a clump of cells like you or me. Do you think I should be able to choose to kill you on a whim?
    Wow... in one single post you've managed to completely display a level of ignorance, arrogance, and confusion so deep the Marianas Trench looks like a suburban rain gutter.

  5. #275
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    Pro-choice, but with some serious reservations. Late term, not down with that. If it has discernible human features...it's a human. If it's that far along, see it thru and get the adoption process going.
    Just a little info:

    Less than 1.5 percent of all legal abortions in the USA take place at or after 20 weeks gestation,
    The risk to the woman's life is greater during an abortion at or after 20 weeks gestation.

    Also the abortion operation is much more complicated and the doctor needs to be highly trained ...
    therefore the risk to fetus or to the woman's life or health has to be greater if the pregnancy were allowed to continue than if an abortion is given.

    Less than .1 ( that is point 1 or one tenth of of one percent ) of all legal abortions in the USA take place at or after 24 weeks gestation ( the limit viability ).

    There are only 4 doctors in the USA who perform legal late term abortions and only a small handful of states that allow late term abortions in extreme cases.

    These cases are where the woman's life is at risk, irreparable damage to a major bodily function would occur if the pregnancy continued , where the fetus would be stillborn or where the fetus is so malformed it would only live a few hours or minutes.

    Kansas is one of a small handful of states tha allows late term abortions in these extreme cases.
    Dr Tiller was one of a small handful ( I think he was of 3 in 2008 ) doctors who performed legal late term abortions.

    OB/GYNs from all the USA would sent their patients with these extreme cases to Dr. Tiller in Kansas in 2008.

    Kansas kept a record of all abortions that took place at or after 22 weeks gestation ( 24 2weeks is the limit of viability ) .

    There were 323 abortions in 2008 that took place in Kansas in 2008 at or after 22 gestation.

    192 fetuses were not viable. They would be stillborn or they were so malformed they would only live a few minutes or hours.

    131 were because there would be irreparable damage to a major bodily function.


    They were extreme cases.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  6. #276
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    The problem is that making abortion illegal won't prevent abortions, it'll simply drive the practice back underground. Abortion was made legal to prevent the heartbreaking calamities that used to happen to desperate girls in back-alley 'clinics'. There were no rules about the term of pregnancy, no standards of practice or even cleanliness, no follow-up, no recourse, no hope.
    Exactly many women were so desperate not to continue an unwanted pregnancy that even knowing the dangers of a illegal abortions they were willing to risk their lives to end the pregnancy.

    From this article:

    Repairing the Damage, Before Roe


    < SNIP>
    I am a retired gynecologist, in my mid-80s. My early formal training in my specialty was spent in New York City, from 1948 to 1953, in two of the city’s large municipal hospitals.

    There I saw and treated almost every complication of illegal abortion that one could conjure,

    done either by the patient herself or by an abortionist — often unknowing, unskilled and probably uncaring. Yet the patient never told us who did the work, or where and under what conditions it was performed. She was in dire need of our help to complete the process or, as frequently was the case, to correct what damage might have been done.

    < SNIP>
    The worst case I saw, and one I hope no one else will ever have to face, was that of a nurse who was admitted with what looked like a partly delivered umbilical cord. Yet as soon as we examined her, we realized that what we thought was the cord was in fact part of her intestine, which had been hooked and torn by whatever implement had been used in the abortion.
    It took six hours of surgery to remove the infected uterus and ovaries and repair the part of the bowel that was still functional.

    It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. They have always been done, dating from ancient Greek days.

    What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting, thus conferring on women, finally, the full rights of first-class citizens — and freeing their doctors to treat them as such.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/he...DcWQfT4MEbi5A&
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  7. #277
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Exactly many women were so desperate not to continue an unwanted pregnancy that even knowing the dangers of a illegal abortions they were willing to risk their lives to end the pregnancy.
    So what?

    Why is it you think that would matter?

  8. #278
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Adoption. Simple.
    Not simple.

    About half of unwanted pregnancies are aborted.

    The other half are carried to term.

    Of those carried to term only about 2 percent are given up for adoption.

    Most women would prefer to abort a pregnancy than to give a child up for adoption.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  9. #279
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Cool it with the personal attacks. My sister just had a baby, I hung out with her every week as she lives in the same city, I'm pretty tuned in to the process. She was going to work all the way up until she went in to labor, just about. She's taking time off work now but that's because she kept her baby. If she had given it up, she could be back working now.

    I don't see any reason someone would have to fail out of school because they were bringing a child to term.
    Congrats to your sister.

    It sounds like she had a healthy pregnancy with very few if any complications.

    Not everyone is as fortunate to be healthy enough to school or work during their pregnancy.
    .......................

    I wanted my children. I was married to a wonderful man and I knew if anything ever happened to me, my husband would love and care for our children.

    A couple of months after DH and I were married ( over 40 years ago) I thought I had the stomach flu as my stomach was upset and I was vomiting but after a few days I realized I might be pregnant. When I went to doctor and found out that indeed I was "expecting" DH and I were so excited. We had planned to start our family as soon as possible . The doctor wrote a script for the morning sickness and I thought all would be OK.

    Only it wasn't Ok. It turns out I had Hyperemesis gravidarum which is an extreme type of morning sickness.

    I had to quit my part time job. I had to drop my college classes .
    My DH was so good to me and so supportive. He took over the cleaning , laundry,cooking his own meals , as well as working to support us.

    I had a very hard time keeping any food down. I could barley even keep a sip of water down. My throat got scarred from constant vomiting. I threw up from 3 to 8 times a day. Every time I would smell food cooking I would throw up. Sometimes I was just throwing up yellow colored stomach acid because I had no food in my stomach. I could only keep down small amounts of saltine crackers and dry cooked popcorn ( no oil)
    By the time I was 5 months I had lost more than 10 percent of my body weight because I was so sick.
    I was pretty much home bound as I was so weak. I got to the point where I could barely function.

    Just think of how you feel when you have the worst stomach flu of your life.

    Then think of feeling that way for several months!



    My OB/GYN did what he could for me but 40 years ago we did not have the meds or the knowledge about extreme morning sickness that is available today. I had IV's to help with my dehydration. I went in regularly for B-12 injections as I had become very anemic. DH and I had taken Lamaze Classes but when it came for my delivery I was so anemic my OB/GYN was so concerned I would hemmorage that he put me under when he delivered the baby. He had everything set up for a total blood transfusion and wanted me under in case he need to do a complete transfusion.

    I was very lucky to have my DH's love and support, both emotional and financial.

    I don't think I could have made it had it not been for him, his love, his patience, his support, my loving family members and friends who helped me endure the sickness, the worry, the stress.and the physical barriers I went through.
    -----------------------------

    Knowing what I went through I could never support a law or a Country that would not allow a woman to choose for herself ( with the possible input of her husband/lover and/or doctor) whether to continue a pregnancy or not.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  10. #280
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    There are only 4 doctors in the USA who perform legal late term abortions and only a small handful of states that allow late term abortions in extreme cases.

    .
    You clearly are well read on this. I do appreciate facts (I'm a self professed lover of logic).
    Maybe you have some of that info handy....I do know of one place in MA, in a city called Methuen. They are known for twenty week and up procedures...if you have that list on hand, double check it to see if that clinic falls under those four. It's a VERY small clinic.

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