View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice?

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  • Pro Life

    34 33.01%
  • Pro choice

    69 66.99%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice?

  1. #191
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    The problem is that making abortion illegal won't prevent abortions, it'll simply drive the practice back underground. Abortion was made legal to prevent the heartbreaking calamities that used to happen to desperate girls in back-alley 'clinics'. There were no rules about the term of pregnancy, no standards of practice or even cleanliness, no follow-up, no recourse, no hope.
    Understood, but remember that was back in the day before the pill and so forth. Society was also a lot less forgiving about pre-marital sex. There's no reason to think it would be the same way today as it was 50 years ago.

  2. #192
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    1.)I don't think abortion is murder.
    2.) But it's like I said to Peter King.... we're not libertarians.
    3.) You're telling me that my opinion or my belief don't matter... but they do - if they coincide with the opinions and beliefs of millions of other Americans (which happens to be the case).
    4.)We don't live in a country where you are responsible for you and I am responsible for me. We live in a society where we get in each other's business, and that's the reality of modern government like it or not.
    5.)You can't sell your kidneys on ebay.... government won't let you.
    6.) Doesn't matter if it's not my right to tell you not to sell your kidneys for money, enough people think it's gross and wrong and therefore it's illegal.
    7.)You can't go and get your leg chopped off by a doctor. Same reason.
    8.)You can't go and get your life ended if you're depressed.... same reason.
    9.)The bottom line is: the government legislates morality all the time. There is a ton of precedent for it and I could go on and on. So if American Society, as a whole, thinks abortion is immoral, then we have every right in the world to make it illegal if we feel that benefits society as a whole.
    10.)Unless you're a staunch libertarian, that's how it is.
    1.) i know i acknowledged that and and its good you agree with facts
    2.) meaningless
    3.) no they dont, neither do mine and neither do the millions of other americans since this is a rights issue. Millions also disagree with you too.
    4.) you are free to have this opinion
    5.) correct they dont
    6.) i believe the reason is bio-hazard and endangerment to the public but no matter still meaningless to the debate at hand
    7.) nope but not cause its "gross"
    8.) noe but again not cause it gross
    9.) again you are free to have this OPINION but its a rights issue so no, doesn't work so simple, see woman's rights, inority rights and interracial marriage.

    in general yes you are free to try but since its a rights issue RvW smacks the idea down to the ground most times and youll have to prove that benefit and proof the rights being violated/taken away dont matter to that benefit

    10.) more opinion

    well thanks for that but getting back o our discussion

    its factually not murder
    your opinion about gifts and throwing that gift away, still meaningless to the debate

    BUT you are free to have those opinions
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  3. #193
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    1.)It's alright, I wasn't trying to be rude I just didn't get what you were trying to say.
    2.)I hope I got you in my other answer.
    1.) i didnt think you were but thanks for the clarification, in print things can be tricky at times
    2.) not sure what this means, do you see now that your statement as an absolute was false.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  4. #194
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Having a child will not ruin anyone's potential.
    Patently wrong. If a woman does not have the $$ or support structure it can easily condemn her to not being able to finish high school or get into college, a menial job instead of a career, the ability to find the man of her choice (some men prefer not to be with women who have kids that arent theirs), not advancing in a career or profession.

    And of course...it could kill her...that's a little inconvenience...or cause lifelong health complications or disease like diabetes.

    But no, none of those things affects her abiilty to reach her potential in life. It can change it, delay it, or destroy it completely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #195
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    I am pro choice but I don't agree with what most people consider pro choice. To most people pro choice means a woman can decide to abort. I don't agree with that at all. It should be a decision by both parents.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  6. #196
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Life is a gift. How many couples are out there that would love nothing more than to have a child but are unable? Therefore, it's a gift. That's my main problem with abortion. It's not that it's murder - I don't believe that it is. It's that you're throwing something precious away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    This is the heart of the matter in many ways. So then why is it hard to recognize that what is a gift to one person can be a life-altering disaster for someone else?

    Because obviously, some women absolutely do not view it as a gift.

    So if you recognize that considering something a 'gift' can have an opposite side of the coin, then to me it's hypocritical and even morally wrong to demand women not have the option of abortion. (Which you said you do not, so this is to the generic 'them')
    You have no idea what the value of that fetus is....if precious or not. It could be a mental vegetable. That 'value' ONLY means something to the mother (or not). It has NO value outside of her perspective until born.

    However we can quantify HER value, as a member of society...and as mentioned earlier, it behooves us ALL to enable her to reach HER potential in life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #197
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) i know i acknowledged that and and its good you agree with facts
    2.) meaningless
    3.) no they dont, neither do mine and neither do the millions of other americans since this is a rights issue. Millions also disagree with you too.
    4.) you are free to have this opinion
    5.) correct they dont
    6.) i believe the reason is bio-hazard and endangerment to the public but no matter still meaningless to the debate at hand
    7.) nope but not cause its "gross"
    8.) noe but again not cause it gross
    9.) again you are free to have this OPINION but its a rights issue so no, doesn't work so simple, see woman's rights, inority rights and interracial marriage.

    in general yes you are free to try but since its a rights issue RvW smacks the idea down to the ground most times and youll have to prove that benefit and proof the rights being violated/taken away dont matter to that benefit

    10.) more opinion

    well thanks for that but getting back o our discussion

    its factually not murder
    your opinion about gifts and throwing that gift away, still meaningless to the debate

    BUT you are free to have those opinions

    You're giving me the libertarian argument. That's fine and I have respect for and understand that viewpoint, but we're not all libertarians. I'm not a libertarian, for example.

    I believe the needs of a society are more important than the rights of an individual.

  8. #198
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    You have no idea what the value of that fetus is....if precious or not. It could be a mental vegetable. That 'value' ONLY means something to the mother (or not). It has NO value outside of her perspective until born.

    However we can quantify HER value, as a member of society...and as mentioned earlier, it behooves us ALL to enable her to reach HER potential in life.
    A child could be born with mental issues, that still doesn't make that child less valuable than an able-bodied child.

    Hope I didn't miss your point.

    The gift is the ability to have a child. Many couples are unable.

  9. #199
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    1.)You're giving me the libertarian argument.
    2.)That's fine and I have respect for and understand that viewpoint, but we're not all libertarians. I'm not a libertarian, for example.
    3.)I believe the needs of a society are more important than the rights of an individual.
    1.) nope, im giving you the facts and reality
    2.) you are mistaken see #1
    3.) at times society rights do take rank, never needs though as that is subjective. Maybe another country would suit you better if you rank subjective needs over rights and freedom
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  10. #200
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Patently wrong. If a woman does not have the $$ or support structure it can easily condemn her to not being able to finish high school or get into college, a menial job instead of a career, the ability to find the man of her choice (some men prefer not to be with women who have kids that arent theirs), not advancing in a career or profession.

    And of course...it could kill her...that's a little inconvenience...or cause lifelong health complications or disease like diabetes.

    But no, none of those things affects her abiilty to reach her potential in life. It can change it, delay it, or destroy it completely.
    Adoption. Simple.

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