View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice?

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  • Pro Life

    34 33.01%
  • Pro choice

    69 66.99%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice?

  1. #131
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    disneydude's Avatar
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Care to provide a link specifically to what you're suggesting the Catholic Church's view on this is and how it differs from Navy's. Since you're the one making the claim I'm sure you wouldn't mind providing a link and explanation
    The Catholic church has come out against capital punishment for years. Do you really need a link to tell you that?

    http://www.catholicnews.com/data/sto...ns/1103884.htm

    The church upholds the inherent dignity of all human beings, even the most sin-filled, and believes in hope, conversion and mercy, he said.

    There is always room for conversion, he said, and forgiveness does not mean being naive about the real evil the human being is capable of committing.

    The death penalty does not solve much; a victim still feels loss and crime is not deterred, he said.

    Communities must strive to promote the common good, and it's dubious "that you can kill someone for the good of all," he said.

    "The beauty of forgiveness must also be truly discovered; it's this that saves us," said Di Ruzza.

    Otherwise, "by killing the just or the unjust without understanding that they have dignity, we will find ourselves after 2,000 years in the same courtyard shouting, 'Kill him!,' like they did with Jesus."

    "God forgave us. He did not call us to death. Jesus let us overcome death" so as to more fully embrace life, he said.
    Last edited by disneydude; 01-23-14 at 05:43 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  2. #132
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    JayDubya's Avatar
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Here's your problem JayDubya, you're thinking everyone must have the same view point you do and you're judging other peoples veiws out of an assumption they think like you...which is a poor assumption.
    Not really, no. I am applying logic and reason and judging other people's views based on whether or not they also do so.

    In this case, having judged these views, they have been found wanting in the logic and reason department, as described thoroughly in the post you quoted.

    I do agree, most people would stipulate that a human is being killed there. I'd also stipulate that there are numerous instances where society dictates it's perfectly legitimate to kill a human....self defense, war, punishment for law violations, etc.
    I didn't make those kind of specifications. I can, certainly, but I didn't in the post above. When talking about killing in self-defense, first of all, there is a victim, the one who was attacked in the first place who had to resort to lethal force to save themselves... and that death isn't treated lightly or trivially, either.

    We're not talking about a cigarette ban or a speeding ticket, there's quite a bit more gravity to that news item and the laws around it... more seriousness. Because, of course, we know a human being was killed.

    The "smoking" type argument I would make - that it's none of my business what people do to themselves - just doesn't fit when you're not talking about a victimless action that only affects the actor in question.

    You're trying to paint it as some kind of standard where somehow we, as a society, never allow contextual situations that legitimaze killing of a human. We absolutely DO.
    As I've pointed out numerous times, we almost never do, at least not in aggression. Abortion stands alone on that.

    Self-defense is not aggressive. A just war is not aggressive. An execution may be in error - a topic for another thread - but if the perp actually committed the crime, it is not aggressive.

    Hiring someone to kill a third party who has done nothing wrong? Yes, that's aggressive.

    While I would wager most agree that a fetus is human, there's GREAT disagreement as to whether or not it should be considered a fully "Living" human, or whether or not it should be considered one with full vested rights, or whether or not it's symbiotic prescence within a woman justifies a balancing level of competing rights similar to the principle that is used in things like Self Defense.
    Such a "disagreement" would be predicated on not knowing the facts or substituting facts for arbitrary, subjective standards about what is "really" alive or "really" human. In fact, one can say that we know what is alive and what is human, whereas what is "really really for reals" alive is frivolous and not likely to be based on anything.

    We all know that a human being is killed in an abortion - the act is violent and intentional, the harm caused is permanent, the victim is innocent. These are simple, objective facts. What opinions people will make of them are their business, but dismissing the weight of that altogether just suggests that someone hasn't really given thought about the issue.

    And beyond that...yes, as crazy as it may seem, some people don't consider a fetus at any given time to be "human" in the traditional sense of the word anymore than they'd consider a sperm or egg to be simply because it has the capacity to become one. I don't personally agree, but if one approaches it with that mindset then those type of analogies are not so crazy.
    The problem is that mindset, in and of itself, is crazy.

    A sperm cell is not an organism, it is part of the body of one organism until it is cast off and either is consumed in the fertilization of an egg cell or dies. Equating a haploid gamete cell and the entire body of a distinct organism of that same species is an exercise in futility that belies an ignorance of scientific fact.

  3. #133
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Both.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  4. #134
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Its not that simple...or simple answers to simple? questions
    I voted other, but this did not work.....another controlled poll....
    I am pro life, but, I must respect others and accept things I do not like....I do not care for abortions, at all, BUT...other people exist.

  5. #135
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    When it come to pro life or pro abortion how do you stand?
    I'm pro "start using a damn condom"

  6. #136
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    I believe that a human organism is in fact a human, no matter how intelligent this organism is or how developed he or she may be.

    I also believe in natural rights (rights don't have to be granted by society or government), which includes the right to life.

    Therefore, I believe that abortion is a violation of these rights, as abortion is an unjustified act unless in certain cases where the mother's life is threatened and a medical decision weighing the possibilities of death for the mother must be examined.
    “Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."

    -Abraham Lincoln

  7. #137
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I'm pro "start using a damn condom"
    Pro comprehensive, honest, and complete sex education in public schools, and VERY pro contraceptive.


    What's funny to me is how many "pro-lifers" are against the idea of true and honest sex education in schools, and some are even anti-contraception.

    The best way to "combat" abortion is through sex-ed and birth control, but many pro-lifers are "stuck" on "abstinence only".

  8. #138
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by reidster View Post
    1.)I believe that a human organism is in fact a human, no matter how intelligent this organism is or how developed he or she may be.

    2.) I also believe in natural rights (rights don't have to be granted by society or government), which includes the right to life.

    3.)Therefore, I believe that abortion is a violation of these rights
    4.) as abortion is an unjustified act unless in certain cases where the mother's life is threatened and a medical decision weighing the possibilities of death for the mother must be examined.
    1.) awesome
    2.) also awesome
    3.) again awesome no problem there i agree
    4.) well this is just opinion and one you are free to have but we'll get back to that later

    so my question is, do you want RvW changed?

    right now has the law stance abortion is legal for any reason up to 24 weeks
    this is 3 weeks after earliest possible viability
    and at the point of 50%viability meaning a baby born here has a 50% chance or living or dying

    abortions after this point are very rare, 1.3% happen after 21 weeks
    and the vast majority fit in to your criteria, they are usually don't to spare the mothers live or spare the child in some fashion.

    So now there are TWO lives being discussed.

    What would you like to happen with Roe vs Wade.

    do you want it totally thrown out and all abortions banned unless there IMMEDIATE risk to the mothers life (because the fact is all pregnancies are a risk) and or spare the child in some fashion

    abortions are ok in case of rape/incest

    you want RvW to remain but be tighter, dropped to 20-21 weeks because thats earliest possible viability

    you want the ceiling set even lower
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  9. #139
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    I'm undecided on the issue, but gun to my head I would say I was pro-life. If nothing else, I would rather live in a society that values human life to the extent where extinguishing life, no matter how young it is, is not something we do.

    Wear a condom.

  10. #140
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    When it come to pro life or pro abortion how do you stand?
    I am in favor of retroactively aborting all babies that have become right wing pols, so I'm Pro-Life.

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