View Poll Results: Do you accept a patient pronounced "brain dead" as dead (legally and otherwise)

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  • Yes

    62 93.94%
  • No

    4 6.06%
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Thread: Do you believe brain death is death?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Sorry, I misunderstood. Yes I guess it does look like they are sleeping if you can get past all the apparatuses they are hooked up to. It's just a horrible thing many will be confronted with in their lifetime. And personally I think it takes a whole lot of love for someone to let them go.
    See that's what I meant about it being an issue - it appears they are still "alive", yet as I understand it, they are actually dead once their brains stop functioning.

    That's the messed up part about it.

    People have to "let them go", when they're technically already gone.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    And I'm so sorry for your loss. "big hug*
    Thank you Sweetie. Saying goodbye to someone we love dearly is probably the hardest thing to do. None of us knows what tomorrow will bring so living life with no regrets is a good place to start. A lifetime of loving others is a nice note to end on.

  3. #83
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    We were told that if he recovered, he would be blind, unable to walk or talk, or to help himself in any way. His brain damage was too extensive from having his skull crushed into the pavement by a huge 36 inch round limb that broke off a tree and flew like a javelin from a tree he was helping a neighbor cut down... a truly freak accident. The decision was made to pull the plug, since he was an multi-tropheyed athlete well known in this area for being one of the most talented baseball players ever to play the game here, and we felt he would never forgive us for not allowing him to go. They kept him on life support for a few days until the family could get here from Texas. This was a few years ago, just days from his 46th birthday, and he died within minutes of having life support removed. He was my son, and left behind a wife and a young daughter he adored, in addition to me and the rest of the family.

    Greetings, EdwinWillers.
    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Our family had to make that call a couple of months ago to have a family member removed from total life support. It's a very hard thing to do. So sorry for your loss.
    Deeply sorry for both your losses. I can't even begin to imagine...

    It is a situation I pray I never have to go through; I can't honestly say how I'd respond or what I'd do. It's one thing to philosophize from the sofa with all the ignorance of someone who knows absolutely nothing about anything neural; it's another to face it in real life. My prayers to both of you and your families.
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

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  4. #84
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Deeply sorry for both your losses. I can't even begin to imagine...

    It is a situation I pray I never have to go through; I can't honestly say how I'd respond or what I'd do. It's one thing to philosophize from the sofa with all the ignorance of someone who knows absolutely nothing about anything neural; it's another to face it in real life. My prayers to both of you and your families.
    Thank you Edwin. I pray you never have to face such a thing. Have a great evening.

  5. #85
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Deeply sorry for both your losses. I can't even begin to imagine...

    It is a situation I pray I never have to go through; I can't honestly say how I'd respond or what I'd do. It's one thing to philosophize from the sofa with all the ignorance of someone who knows absolutely nothing about anything neural; it's another to face it in real life. My prayers to both of you and your families.
    I really think my family was in shock more than anything else, and it helped dull the pain until we were able to deal with it a few days later. The mind is an amazing thing....

  6. #86
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Actually it is a lot more complex. There are many people who physiologically lack the ability to breath, but are not brain dead. A very high c-spine injury comes to mind. That person can have all their thoughts, memories, and desires left 100% intact. mechanical assistance saves that patient.

    An AED is pure electric activity. If the patient has no mechanical ability left in the heart an AED will not help.

    CPR is pure mechanical activity and a bridge to return to life if the body is up for the challenge.

    Marlise Munoz had the resuscitative measures and her heart restarted, but her brain did not. She had the bridges to return to life applied, and they failed. She died by neurologic insult. There will be no braindead person that was diagnosed by current guidelines that will wake up and disagree.

    Sorry for the scattered thoughts.
    NP - and yeah, I don't begin to pretend there's anything simple or easy about any aspect of it. Perhaps the closest I've ever come to it is having to make the decision to put down a beloved pet. It's never easy, never simple, never straightforward.
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  7. #87
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm not even sure doctors fully understand the relationship between mother and fetus.

    I think it very likely that if you kept a brain-dead pregnant woman alive just to give her baby a chance at survival, it would turn out badly or even worse.

    Not to mention it's ****ing grotesque.
    There are cases that I can see a family pushing for keeping the corpse attached to machines.

    Strictly a neurological event that did should not have affected the fetus.

    Closer to the point of viability outside the womb.

    A family that is willing to push for it.

    I can see a grey area where a family could go to court and plead their case.

    The Munoz case was nowhere near that grey area.
    Last edited by year2late; 01-27-14 at 12:10 AM.

  8. #88
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I think it very likely that if you kept a brain-dead pregnant woman alive just to give her baby a chance at survival, it would turn out badly or even worse.
    actually cited some research her or in the other thread that indicates this is not the case. Though timeframe and supports seems very important

    Not to mention it's ****ing grotesque
    Why?

  9. #89
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    actually cited some research her or in the other thread that indicates this is not the case. Though timeframe and supports seems very important



    Why?
    I think that quote was not mine.

  10. #90
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    Re: Do you believe brain death is death?

    If a brain-dead person revives, if the person later is attacked and killed would it "murder" or abuse of a corpse? If the revived person when on a killing spree, could the person still be prosecuted being that he is legally dead?

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