View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

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  • yes

    75 52.45%
  • no

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Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

  1. #501
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There's your problem, there's no such thing as an inalienable right.
    Way I look at it, there might be, but we have no way to prove it one way or another so it's kinda pointless.
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  2. #502
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Way I look at it, there might be, but we have no way to prove it one way or another so it's kinda pointless.
    If you cannot prove one way or the other, then you have no reasonable conclusion that there is. The libertarian-types keep asserting that there is something out there that they cannot demonstrate, yet their entire philosophy is based upon it's existence. It's little more than a religious belief. Therefore, it's not worthy of taking seriously.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #503
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    If you cannot prove one way or the other, then you have no reasonable conclusion that there is. The libertarian-types keep asserting that there is something out there that they cannot demonstrate, yet their entire philosophy is based upon it's existence. It's little more than a religious belief. Therefore, it's not worthy of taking seriously.
    The philosophy itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

    It would be comforting if inalienable rights actually existed...but I'm not sure they do. However, the possibility that they do exist is there, nonetheless.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  4. #504
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    So you believe that the government owns all property and rights and it is right that government can assign us the rights we will have and dictate to us how we must use the property that we legally and lawfully acquired, meaning that we do not actually own it at all?

    You see, to exercise the kind of morality you are promoting here, you must strip away the rights from all people in order to distribute the benevolence that you believe is the moral way.

    What is lawful to do is not always right to do. And in order to have liberty, we have to allow people to be wrong.
    I'm glad for the laws that allow employees to sue when they have been discriminating against in their workplace for reasons that are protected by the various civil rights laws in this country. Freedom is a wonderful thing. Yet if I get MY freedom by walking on people who happen to be the wrong color, worship the wrong god, whatever? I'll gladly give up some.

  5. #505
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Maggie, what about a gay person who is not doing the job....... Should and employer be allowed to fire .? Then what if the gay person cries discrimination and the employer did not even know the man was gay?
    A gay person not doing the job should be fired the same as any straight person not doing the job. If the employer has a documented basis for the firing, then it shouldn't matter if the person tries to claim an improper basis for the firing. That being said, an employer should not be able to fire someone just because they find out that the person is gay. That would be just as wrong.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #506
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The philosophy itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

    It would be comforting if inalienable rights actually existed...but I'm not sure they do. However, the possibility that they do exist is there, nonetheless.
    I don't care if it's a good thing or a bad thing, I care if it's a true thing. Because something is comforting doesn't make it true. I don't see where there is a single logical justification for thinking that natural rights or the like exist, it's just wishful thinking. The reality is, from every shred of evidence we have, humans invent rights.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #507
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't care if it's a good thing or a bad thing, I care if it's a true thing. Because something is comforting doesn't make it true. I don't see where there is a single logical justification for thinking that natural rights or the like exist, it's just wishful thinking. The reality is, from every shred of evidence we have, humans invent rights.
    I don't think a philosophy can really be true or false - it just is. Whether you agree or not is immaterial to that.

    Even if said philosophy is wrong about inalienable rights, the idea that they exist goes a long way towards protecting them from infringement, and thus the philosophy, however misguided, is a good thing - so long as the rights are not unreasonable.

    Basically, it doesn't really matter whether a right is inalienable or not, since we cannot prove such a claim - only that enough people BELIEVE it is, and protect it.

    Then, in effect, it becomes inalienable.
    Education.

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  8. #508
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I don't think a philosophy can really be true or false - it just is. Whether you agree or not is immaterial to that.

    Even if said philosophy is wrong about inalienable rights, the idea that they exist goes a long way towards protecting them from infringement, and thus the philosophy, however misguided, is a good thing - so long as the rights are not unreasonable.

    Basically, it doesn't really matter whether a right is inalienable or not, since we cannot prove such a claim - only that enough people BELIEVE it is, and protect it.

    Then, in effect, it becomes inalienable.
    It's only inalienable when and where it is protected though. However, lots of these crazy libertarians think that there are these magical rights that just float around in the ether and automatically apply to everyone, everywhere, just because they say so. That's demonstrably not so and a lot of people take modern philosophical thought far too seriously, the overwhelming majority of it is just mental masturbation, it doesn't actually mean anything because it has no basis in demonstrable reality at all. It's just assertions, blind, emotional and without the slightest rational support. They start with pie-in-the-sky assertions that don't really mean anything, then they lead straight into magical wishful thinking with no intellectual justification at all.

    So no, I don't take these claims seriously, even though believers expect everyone to just roll over and take them at their word. No thanks.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #509
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's only inalienable when and where it is protected though. However, lots of these crazy libertarians think that there are these magical rights that just float around in the ether and automatically apply to everyone, everywhere, just because they say so. That's demonstrably not so and a lot of people take modern philosophical thought far too seriously, the overwhelming majority of it is just mental masturbation, it doesn't actually mean anything because it has no basis in demonstrable reality at all. It's just assertions, blind, emotional and without the slightest rational support. They start with pie-in-the-sky assertions that don't really mean anything, then they lead straight into magical wishful thinking with no intellectual justification at all.

    So no, I don't take these claims seriously, even though believers expect everyone to just roll over and take them at their word. No thanks.
    I think that if something (such as a right) were truly inalienable, any attempt to violate/change it would fail.

    The rights that are often called inalienable are actually more along the lines of "what a human usually fights to protect" (life, liberty, etc.).
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #510
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Would we need as much public sector intervention in private sector markets if labor had recourse to unemployment compensation on an at-will basis?

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