View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

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  • yes

    75 52.45%
  • no

    68 47.55%
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Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    However, who's business is it in how you conduct business?
    The customer, the investor, the tax-payer who also has a say in the zoning laws your business is located in....how you do business with the community is the community's business.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    ...how you do business with the community is the community's business.
    Shouldn't the community respond though? Not the fed?

    I figure nothing sorts things out faster than a boycott of business.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is exactly what I've been saying. The employee can quit for any reason they want. The employer can fire the employee for any reason they want, excepting for things established as illegal. No harm, no foul.
    I think though that you are still missing my point. Other than honoring what the employer and employee have agreed between them, it should not be illegal to fire somebody for any reason whatsoever.

    I am setting aside all concepts of morality, good heartedness, and motive that concern people of character and of course will be a factor in how employers treat their employees. I am focused on one single principle. The employer has the right to use his legally and ethically acquired property as he sees fit, and, other than what is agreed between the employer and employee, the employee should have no right to demand any part of that for any reason. If the law sees it in any other way, the law is wrong.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    Shouldn't the community respond though? Not the fed?

    I figure nothing sorts things out faster than a boycott of business.
    The community did respond. The community sued. The Fed didn't act on it's own. This was dropped in the Fed's lap because our constitution places matters which cross state lines there. That was the community response. A boycott is another kind of community response, and may businesses were boycotted, but this issue got so inflamed that it went to Capitol Hill.

    If you don't want the community of the US as your customer, you are free to refuse service and take your business to a more agreeable community. Just like no one forces a customer or employee through your door, no one forces you to operate a business. It's all based on mutual consent, and that consent has conditions for both sides. That's what a contract is, including an employment contract.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-03-14 at 04:07 PM.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think though that you are still missing my point. Other than honoring what the employer and employee have agreed between them, it should not be illegal to fire somebody for any reason whatsoever.

    I am setting aside all concepts of morality, good heartedness, and motive that concern people of character and of course will be a factor in how employers treat their employees. I am focused on one single principle. The employer has the right to use his legally and ethically acquired property as he sees fit, and, other than what is agreed between the employer and employee, the employee should have no right to demand any part of that for any reason. If the law sees it in any other way, the law is wrong.
    So your employer ought to be able to arbitrarily terminate you because of your religious beliefs, skin color or gender? I don't buy that at all, sorry. It's one thing if your work performance is poor, it's one thing if they no longer need your services, it's quite another to arbitrarily terminate people because they possess some innate physical characteristic or religious belief.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think though that you are still missing my point. Other than honoring what the employer and employee have agreed between them, it should not be illegal to fire somebody for any reason whatsoever.

    I am setting aside all concepts of morality, good heartedness, and motive that concern people of character and of course will be a factor in how employers treat their employees. I am focused on one single principle. The employer has the right to use his legally and ethically acquired property as he sees fit, and, other than what is agreed between the employer and employee, the employee should have no right to demand any part of that for any reason. If the law sees it in any other way, the law is wrong.
    You also have to be setting aside the principle of fundamental equal treatment before the law. In the US, people have the right to protection against discrimination. This includes almost all aspects of civil society, which includes employment.
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    So your employer ought to be able to arbitrarily terminate you because of your religious beliefs, skin color or gender? I don't buy that at all, sorry. It's one thing if your work performance is poor, it's one thing if they no longer need your services, it's quite another to arbitrarily terminate people because they possess some innate physical characteristic or religious belief.
    Yes. Your employer should be able to terminate an employee for ANY reason because it is the employer's business, the employer's money, the employer's property, the employer's resources, the employer's risk to be in business at all. It should not be determined by class, race, religion, culture, or whatever that determines which people are given the right to that employer's property and which are not. No employer with any brains is going to admit he fired somebody because that somebody was religious or whatever. And of course a decent person would not fire somebody for no other reason than that. But realistically, if the employer is not allowed to fire somebody he wants to fire, he is going to make that employee's work life pretty miserable.

    Far better to set aside the social engineering and just accept that liberty requires the employer to control his own legally and ethically acquired property and do with it whatever he wishes so long as he does not violate anybody else's rights. And nobody should have the right to that property without his consent.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    My word knowledge and comprehension are quite good, and my degree in Economics is from a decent school. So what's more likely is that you are using overly-broad terms in a non-standard manner applied to situations where they are not normally applied and refuse to explain your reasoning.


    But why only in at-will employment states? Why not all states? Why do you think recourse to unemployment compensation is inadequate in at-will states?

    In other words you would give unemployment compensation for being fired for misconduct or for simple quitting in at will states but not others. Why???
    Because, at-will employment is codified as law in at-will employment States; any questions?

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by lawboy View Post
    An employee can not quit for ANY reason, despite the wording, there are limitations, therefore the employer should not be able to fire for ANY reason.
    Why shouldn't employees be able to quit and collect unemployment compensation in any at-will employment State?

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Sans contract, that's the way it is. Works for me.

    Edit: The German has reminded me that various state and federal civil rights laws prohibit discrimination. I should say that I agree with these laws. Hard to enforce, but no one should be fired for being gay, pregnant, black, Muslim, etc.
    Maggie, what about a gay person who is not doing the job....... Should and employer be allowed to fire .? Then what if the gay person cries discrimination and the employer did not even know the man was gay?
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