View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

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Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

  1. #441
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The thing is, you pay for unemployment insurance out of every single paycheck you receive. Anyone who is unemployed and has paid for it ought to receive that money, it's theirs. However, you should receive no more than you paid into the system, plus whatever part your employer paid in on your behalf. When you run out, there should be no more.
    No you don't. The employer pays all the SUTA and FUTA taxes. The employee pays none. At least as a deduction. Of course all taxes and other regulation mandated for the employer to comply with reduces the amount of wages and benefits he/she can extend to the employees, but there is no deduction from the employee's wages for unemployment insurance.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    You're so vague in your posts, it's almost impossible to tell what you think the concepts are or what you mean by your broad labels. Which could mean many things. Until you actually explain, it cannot be known what you mean by full employment of resources. Especially since you're linking it with unemployment insurance, which is certainly not employment of resources. If you mean government supported zero or near zero unemployment where the government provides jobs, regardless of actual demand, then that is staggeringly inefficient.

    Which is more effecient.

    Why are you saying they don't have recourse to our own laws in at will states? I posted Virginia's requirements....what about them do you see as different from a non at-will state?

    I didn't say labor would be worse off, because your premise is faulty..you haven't shown how your think employees in at-will states are at any disadvantage or have any difficulties receiving UI benefits.
    It may simply have to do with mustering with a dictionary and thesaurus "militia" to become more well regulated in your word knowledge and comphrension.

    The simple version is that recourse to unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed in any at-will employment State could solve simple poverty in our republic when due to a lack of income that would normally be obtained in a more efficient market for labor; it would merely need to clear our poverty guidelines.

  3. #443
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Unemployment benefits are less efficient than wages from employment.
    Expanding UI benefits to those who quit, which is what I was responding to, would give less incentive to work, and increase the inefficiency or UI benefits.

    Look at it like this:
    Job: Employee recieves wages from employer.
    UI benefits: Recipient receives payment from the State, which recieves the funds from a tax on Employers.

    Which one has less steps and fewer layers and fewer people involved? That is the more efficient method.

    UI benefits are more efficient than attempting to handle unemployed through the general state fund or welfare, as the funds are dedicated, and the criteria are set.
    But you also need to bring a human element into this. If unemployment benefits were to dissappear - hypothetically -, then the recipients would do one of three things:
    a. Not be able to find an alternate source of income
    b. Continue working their current jobs, but face a severe decrease in quality of life
    c. Be forced to find a (potentially additional) job

    We've seen the use of unemployment benefits fluctuate according to the country's economic conditions, so it's very likely that c would not be the case. Given our current economy, it's certainly not now.

  4. #444
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It may simply have to do with mustering with a dictionary and thesaurus "militia" to become more well regulated in your word knowledge and comphrension.
    My word knowledge and comprehension are quite good, and my degree in Economics is from a decent school. So what's more likely is that you are using overly-broad terms in a non-standard manner applied to situations where they are not normally applied and refuse to explain your reasoning.

    The simple version is that recourse to unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed in any at-will employment State could solve simple poverty in our republic when due to a lack of income that would normally be obtained in a more efficient market for labor; it would merely need to clear our poverty guidelines.
    But why only in at-will employment states? Why not all states? Why do you think recourse to unemployment compensation is inadequate in at-will states?

    In other words you would give unemployment compensation for being fired for misconduct or for simple quitting in at will states but not others. Why???
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    But you also need to bring a human element into this. .
    But then we're no longer talking about efficiency. Don't misinterpret my posts to thinking I'm saying unemployment insurance is "bad" or should be gotten rid of.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No, you don't, at least not directly. UI tax comes only from employers, and is not a deduction on employee wages. Workers don't pay in to UI taxes.
    There are several states where that's not the case, the employee does directly contribute to unemployment insurance.
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    An employee can not quit for ANY reason, despite the wording, there are limitations, therefore the employer should not be able to fire for ANY reason.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There are several states where that's not the case, the employee does directly contribute to unemployment insurance.
    Really? Could you name one of them?

    There are a very few limited instances in which some states do require an out-of-state employee who is eligible for unemployment insurance in a state, but whose employer is not contributing to that state's unemployment fund, will be required to kick in his/her portion of that. But that is a really rare anomaly and is mostly in effect as a safeguard against people unethically accessing a state unemployment fund.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 02-03-14 at 01:31 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There are several states where that's not the case, the employee does directly contribute to unemployment insurance.
    Three. There are only three where employees give a minimal contribution.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  10. #450
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by lawboy View Post
    An employee can not quit for ANY reason, despite the wording, there are limitations, therefore the employer should not be able to fire for ANY reason.
    Really? We have returned to a slave state in which people are forced into servitude against their will? Certainly if a person has agreed to certain terms of employment and expectations, he/she can forfeit bonuses, sick pay, and other benefits if he/she quits without fulfilling those terms; i.e. give proper notice etc. But I am unaware of any business that can force a person to stay on the job if that person chooses not to be there. So educate me on that please.

    But the fact remains, whatever the employee brings to the job, he/she can leave with including tools and other personal property. The employer has no right to any personal property furnished by the employee. And likewise the employee should be entitled to no part of the employer's money, property, and other resources other than what has been agreed between employer and employee.

    If the employee can demand unearned money, property, or other resources from the employer, other than what has been agreed between them, then the employer really owns nothing does he/she? The government can demand that the employer hire people whether he/she needs them or not or whether they are suitable or not and can dictate who will be let go or whether somebody can be let go. And that is just wrong.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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