View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

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  • yes

    75 52.45%
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    68 47.55%
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Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

  1. #431
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It is about the employment relationship.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It is about equality before the law under our republican form of Government with our form of Capitalism.
    But you keep refusing to articulate the exact problem you believe exists. What do you think there's a lack of equality and what do you think is the issue. Spell it out, man.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  2. #432
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    A requirement to show cause is not at will employment. But one can still be fired tor cause in a state with at will employment.
    If one is fired for cause in an at-will state, one is not eligible for UI benefits.
    But someone fired without cause is eligible for benefits. They're not eligible for severance pay, but as far as UI benefits go, I'm not aware of any difference between at-will and other states.
    The point is that labor should be able to collect unemployment simply for being unemployed, to correct that ineffiency of Capitalism, and using Socialism to bail it out as a result.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    The point is that labor should be able to collect unemployment simply for being unemployed, to correct that ineffiency of Capitalism, and using Socialism to bail it out as a result.
    So to correct one perceived inefficiency you want to introduce an even greater inefficiency? How does that work?
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  4. #434
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    So to correct one perceived inefficiency you want to introduce an even greater inefficiency? How does that work?
    It works by understanding the concepts involved. Full employment of resources is one concept. Employment at will is another concept.

    Why do you believe labor would be worse off by having recourse to our own laws regarding unemployment compensation in any at-will employment State?

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It works by understanding the concepts involved.
    You're so vague in your posts, it's almost impossible to tell what you think the concepts are or what you mean by your broad labels.
    Full employment of resources is one concept.
    Which could mean many things. Until you actually explain, it cannot be known what you mean by full employment of resources. Especially since you're linking it with unemployment insurance, which is certainly not employment of resources. If you mean government supported zero or near zero unemployment where the government provides jobs, regardless of actual demand, then that is staggeringly inefficient.

    Employment at will is another concept.
    Which is more effecient.

    Why do you believe labor would be worse off by having recourse to our own laws regarding unemployment compensation in any at-will employment State?
    Why are you saying they don't have recourse to our own laws in at will states? I posted Virginia's requirements....what about them do you see as different from a non at-will state?

    I didn't say labor would be worse off, because your premise is faulty..you haven't shown how your think employees in at-will states are at any disadvantage or have any difficulties receiving UI benefits.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    So to correct one perceived inefficiency you want to introduce an even greater inefficiency? How does that work?
    Unemployment isn't an inefficiency, if it's drawn from accumulated stores of wealth. Right now, this is only partially true, but it still funnels wealth into the economy.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    I still think the issue of unemployment insurance is a different issue. And each state should decide for itself who will and will not qualify for unemployment insurance. What part, inappropriate or not, that the state and federal government plays in that should also be a separate issue.

    I took the intent of this thread to be whether an employer should have the right to fire an employee at will regardless of what benefits are out there for that employee. Does a person have the right to use his/her own legally and ethically acquired money, property, and other resources in his/her own interest? Does the employee have any right to that other than what is agreed between the employer and employee? And if the employer does not have the right to hire and fire at will, so long as no agreements between employer and employee are violated, then do any of us control what we have legally and ethically acquired?

    And from a more practical standpoint, how much harder will it be for borderline people to get hired at all if the employer is not going to be allowed to fire them if they don't work out or their employment turns out not to be a benefit to the employer?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I still think the issue of unemployment insurance is a different issue. And each state should decide for itself who will and will not qualify for unemployment insurance. What part, inappropriate or not, that the state and federal government plays in that should also be a separate issue.
    The thing is, you pay for unemployment insurance out of every single paycheck you receive. Anyone who is unemployed and has paid for it ought to receive that money, it's theirs. However, you should receive no more than you paid into the system, plus whatever part your employer paid in on your behalf. When you run out, there should be no more.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    Unemployment isn't an inefficiency, if it's drawn from accumulated stores of wealth. Right now, this is only partially true, but it still funnels wealth into the economy.
    Unemployment benefits are less efficient than wages from employment.
    Expanding UI benefits to those who quit, which is what I was responding to, would give less incentive to work, and increase the inefficiency or UI benefits.

    Look at it like this:
    Job: Employee recieves wages from employer.
    UI benefits: Recipient receives payment from the State, which recieves the funds from a tax on Employers.

    Which one has less steps and fewer layers and fewer people involved? That is the more efficient method.

    UI benefits are more efficient than attempting to handle unemployed through the general state fund or welfare, as the funds are dedicated, and the criteria are set.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  10. #440
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The thing is, you pay for unemployment insurance out of every single paycheck you receive. .
    No, you don't, at least not directly. UI tax comes only from employers, and is not a deduction on employee wages. Workers don't pay in to UI taxes.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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