View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

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  • yes

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Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

  1. #411
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    1.)The choice is whether to recognize something as inherent. Whether it is actually inherent or not is totally independent of that recognition.

    2.)The example given in the link I posted is "the dangers inherent in mountaineering".
    3.)No one decided those dangers were inherent, they just were. And are recognized as such.
    1.) then how does it get that way? what if nobody ever recognizes it?
    2.) we arent talking about mountaineering
    3.) see #2

    your example isn't a parallel at all, mountaineering is an activity not like rights at all
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  2. #412
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) then how does it get that way? what if nobody ever recognizes it?
    2.) we arent talking about mountaineering
    3.) see #2

    your example isn't a parallel at all, mountaineering is an activity not like rights at all
    Then it remains an unrecognized inherent trait.
    It was an example of what the word inherent means.
    Education.

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  3. #413
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    1.)Then it remains an unrecognized inherent trait.
    2.)It was an example of what the word inherent means.
    1.) so then nobody would ever know, very interesting
    2.) nobody asked for an example i know what it means

    my question was, what makes it inherent?

    and that question is in relation to the topic, its in relation to rights.
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  4. #414
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) so then nobody would ever know, very interesting
    2.) nobody asked for an example i know what it means

    my question was, what makes it inherent?

    and that question is in relation to the topic, its in relation to rights.
    Precisely. Effectively it is impossible to know for sure that something is inherent - it may just be a factor that has not yet found a solution (in the case of "the dangers inherent in mountaineering"), or in the case of a "right", it may be inherent, yet how would you test such a thing? No way that I know of. Further, many of the rights we claim are inherent can be violated - is a right inherent if it can be violated?

    The link I posted earlier gave the definition of the word, which explains what makes something inherent, at least in part. Not sure it can actually be applied to a right, however.

    And the mountaineering example is fairly clear-cut - we all know that it's dangerous to climb tall mountains... Whether a right might or might not be inherent is harder to define - I would suspect that the vast majority (perhaps all) of rights are social constructs, along with any claims to inherence.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #415
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    1.)Precisely. Effectively it is impossible to know for sure that something is inherent - it may just be a factor that has not yet found a solution (in the case of "the dangers inherent in mountaineering"), or in the case of a "right", it may be inherent, yet how would you test such a thing? No way that I know of. Further, many of the rights we claim are inherent can be violated - is a right inherent if it can be violated?

    2.)The link I posted earlier gave the definition of the word, which explains what makes something inherent, at least in part. Not sure it can actually be applied to a right, however.

    3.)And the mountaineering example is fairly clear-cut - we all know that it's dangerous to climb tall mountains...

    4.)Whether a right might or might not be inherent is harder to define -
    5.)I would suspect that the vast majority (perhaps all) of rights are social constructs, along with any claims to inherence.
    1.) so it comes full circle and every right is simply made up, thank you
    2.) EXACTLY because to apply to a right it would have to be made up
    3.) yes i agree
    4.) impossible because it will be made up
    5.) yes all which was my point

    the confusion was not about the word inherent it was how it possibly could be applied to rights and be factual or verified, it can not. It will simply be a construct of some kind whether social or individual etc.

    Ill be disappearing for a while maybe the night but im not ignoring you

    Ive been working on redoing my home network CATV, internet (wired and wireless) and Teleco. I have to go be responsible and shut down the network and run some cables. Later
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  6. #416
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) so it comes full circle and every right is simply made up, thank you
    2.) EXACTLY because to apply to a right it would have to be made up
    3.) yes i agree
    4.) impossible because it will be made up
    5.) yes all which was my point

    the confusion was not about the word inherent it was how it possibly could be applied to rights and be factual or verified, it can not. It will simply be a construct of some kind whether social or individual etc.

    Ill be disappearing for a while maybe the night but im not ignoring you

    Ive been working on redoing my home network CATV, internet (wired and wireless) and Teleco. I have to go be responsible and shut down the network and run some cables. Later
    My only disagreement is with the statement that all rights are made up - I agree that so far as we can determine, this is the case - however, this does not eliminate the possibility that some rights ARE inherent - only that we can not determine one way or another.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #417
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Why? Someone fired at will, and not for cause would be eligible for UI benefits.
    For cause criteria is not at-will employment.

  8. #418
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Look, if you want to make a statement then refuse to explain it that's your business. But Im not sure why you hang around a discussion board if that's your attitude.
    If you didn't get it by what I wrote, you may need to do some research yourself. I have been getting irrelevant arguments from people who ask simple questions they should know, if they plan to understand the concepts debate the issues in an informed manner and fashion in modern times.

  9. #419
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What the ****? What right to unemployment? How in the hell is any of this comparable to Jim Crow laws?
    Have you read a federal doctrine and State laws regarding the concept of employment at will? It should explain these simple concepts.

  10. #420
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Unemployment is a separate topic here though so far as I am concerned.

    For me the issue boils down to one single principle. We each have the right to use our legally and ethically acquired money, physical property, and resources as we see fit so long as we do not violate anybody else's rights or we don't. If we do, the employee has no right to any part of that other than what the employer agrees to with the employee.

    If we do, the employer can hire and fire whomever he needs to in order to serve the employer's interests. The employee likewise can negotiate whatever terms he/she can get with the employer. The employer has no right to the employee's labor other than what the employee agrees to. The employee has no right to any compensation or benefit provided by the employer other than what the employer agrees to. And each will be looking to his/her own interests in the negotiations.

    If we don't, then there is no such thing as unalienable rights or individual liberties. We are all puppets of the government that will assign us the rights it wants us to have at any given time, and we are subject to the government's whims, whatever those might be. And nobody owns anything.
    It has to do with at-will employment laws. They should be applied in a manner that conforms to our republican principles.

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