View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

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  • yes

    75 52.45%
  • no

    68 47.55%
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Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

  1. #321
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Uhh, yes you did. You said the following, in a discussion about whether or not employers should have unchecked power to hire and fire:

    "Then you do not believe in the unalienable right to our property and possessions that were acquired legally and ethically."

    People are not your property. I went on to say:

    "If you want total control of your business, don't look to hire anyone. But the moment you agree to accept benefits provided by the US government (currency, taxpayer built roads, etc.), your concept of "unalienable" rights loses value."

    There's nothing difficult about anything. You seem to think employers should have unhindered access to a person's life, playing by absolutely nobody's rules, despite the massive benefits they receive from outside sources. You think regulation prohibiting the free exercise of firing people gets in the way of their "unalienable right to...property and possessions".

    People are not property or possessions. If you don't want to be hindered by government regulations regarding hiring and firing, then don't hire anyone. But when you operate a business which relies on A) police support paid by taxpayers B) currency backed by the US government C) public roads to access your business D) various other things, then it's silly to claim the business should get all of these benefits from the public while still being able to treat people like property, to do with as they see fit.
    Sorry but I said absolutely nothing about people in the discussion of property. That YOU interpreted property as being people says a lot, however. Again you totally missed the point. But oh well. I am beginning to see that as your stock in trade here and rather suspect you do it deliberately. I won't respond further if you insist on continuing to twist what I post to serve your own agenda. Again I wish you a good day.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #322
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I already did.
    And finally, what good does the law do here?

    Would you want to work for a guy that wants you to sleep with him and expects you to do so for the pay you are receiving...even though you don't want to?

    I certainly wouldn't.

    But you want a law that allows her to stay in that ridiculous job? What for? How will that give her dignity?

    Besides, if he wants her gone, he will just makeup an excuse to fire her so he can get an employee that WILL sleep with him. And this lie will go on her permanent record.

    It would be far better for her just to be fired because she would not sleep with him and use that as the official reason.

    It will tell other potential bosses 'hands off' and it will warn other candidates what the guy really wants.

  3. #323
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    And finally, what good does the law do here?

    Would you want to work for a guy that wants you to sleep with him and expects you to do so for the pay you are receiving...even though you don't want to?

    I certainly wouldn't.

    But you want a law that allows her to stay in that ridiculous job? What for? How will that give her dignity?

    Besides, if he wants her gone, he will just makeup an excuse to fire her so he can get an employee that WILL sleep with him. And this lie will go on her permanent record.

    It would be far better for her just to be fired because she would not sleep with him and use that as the official reason.

    It will tell other potential bosses 'hands off' and it will warn other candidates what the guy really wants.
    or more rationally it deters the boss from even asking and she just keep her job no harm no foul lol

    it would NEVER be far better to just have her be fired thats absurd lol
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  4. #324
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    or more rationally it deters the boss from even asking and she just keep her job no harm no foul lol

    it would NEVER be far better to just have her be fired thats absurd lol
    But that still isn't the point. The point is whether we have the unalienable right to use our money, our property, our resources that we acquired legally and ethically for our own benefit and for our own interests so long as we do not violate the rights of any other. Does that employee have any right to that money, that property, those resources other than what he or she agrees with the employer? And if the employer no longer needs or wants that employee for whatever reason, and no agreement with the employee is violated, why should the employer not let the employee go? The reason is really immaterial.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But that still isn't the point. The point is whether we have the unalienable right to use our money, our property, our resources that we acquired legally and ethically for our own benefit and for our own interests so long as we do not violate the rights of any other. Does that employee have any right to that money, that property, those resources other than what he or she agrees with the employer? And if the employer no longer needs or wants that employee for whatever reason, and no agreement with the employee is violated, why should the employer not let the employee go? The reason is really immaterial.
    Well said, imho.

  6. #326
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    1.)But that still isn't the point.
    2.) The point is whether we have the unalienable right to use our money, our property, our resources that we acquired legally and ethically for our own benefit and for our own interests so long as we do not violate the rights of any other.
    3.) Does that employee have any right to that money, that property, those resources other than what he or she agrees with the employer?
    4.) And if the employer no longer needs or wants that employee for whatever reason, and no agreement with the employee is violated, why should the employer not let the employee go?
    5.)The reason is really immaterial.
    1.) so you admit that point was false and held no merit? I agree
    2.) i agree and illegal discrimination does violate the rights of others so theres the correct answer
    3.) this is NOT the argument at all by any means what so ever lol the right is not to be unfairly and unlawfully discriminated against
    4.) again not the argument, only illegal discrimination and violating rights is. Trying to reframe the topic wont change it.
    the employer is free to not hire or fire an employee for any reason it wants as long as it doenst violate the employee's rights
    5.) 100% false if its illegal discrimination and violates rights its 100% material
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  7. #327
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) so you admit that point was false and held no merit? I agree
    2.) i agree and illegal discrimination does violate the rights of others so theres the correct answer
    3.) this is NOT the argument at all by any means what so ever lol the right is not to be unfairly and unlawfully discriminated against
    4.) again not the argument, only illegal discrimination and violating rights is. Trying to reframe the topic wont change it.
    the employer is free to not hire or fire an employee for any reason it wants as long as it doenst violate the employee's rights
    5.) 100% false if its illegal discrimination and violates rights its 100% material
    Non sequitur and non responsive, I'm afraid. A person's gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nor any other criteria pertains to the point I was making.

    Please explain why the employee has any right to money, property, or resources that the employer has legally and ethically acquired? And how does it violate anybody's rights if the employer chooses to keep these rather than trade them for somebody's labor?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  8. #328
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    1.)Non sequitur and non responsive, I'm afraid.
    2.) A person's gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nor any other criteria pertains to the point I was making.
    3.)Please explain why the employee has any right to money, property, or resources that the employer has legally and ethically acquired?
    4.) And how does it violate anybody's rights if the employer chooses to keep these rather than trade them for somebody's labor?
    1.) only because it defeats your reframing and made it meaningless, be afraid all you want until you can argue against it you got nothing.
    2.) then do tell what is your point?
    3.) lol ok read this slow, THIS IS A STRAWMAN. That is factually not the argument or discussion. Never said the employe has that right but ask me 5 more times and try to keep deflecting it will keep failing
    4.) if an employee illegal discrimination that violates rights, try to reframe it however you want it will fail since we are dealing in reality and fact

    sorry people have rights and the employer doesnt get to violate them

    your task is to provide any logical reason why an employer should be allowed to violate rights but im guessing your next post will be another deflection, strawman and attempt to reframe
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Non sequitur and non responsive, I'm afraid. A person's gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nor any other criteria pertains to the point I was making.

    Please explain why the employee has any right to money, property, or resources that the employer has legally and ethically acquired? And how does it violate anybody's rights if the employer chooses to keep these rather than trade them for somebody's labor?
    He does that.

    I gave up trying, perhaps you will have better fortune...you seem more patient then I.

  10. #330
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) only because it defeats your reframing and made it meaningless, be afraid all you want until you can argue against it you got nothing.
    2.) then do tell what is your point?
    3.) lol ok read this slow, THIS IS A STRAWMAN. That is factually not the argument or discussion. Never said the employe has that right but ask me 5 more times and try to keep deflecting it will keep failing
    4.) if an employee illegal discrimination that violates rights, try to reframe it however you want it will fail since we are dealing in reality and fact

    sorry people have rights and the employer doesnt get to violate them

    your task is to provide any logical reason why an employer should be allowed to violate rights but im guessing your next post will be another deflection, strawman and attempt to reframe
    None of what I possted is non sequitur to the point I was making . And until you answer the one and only pertinent questin related to the point I was making, we have nothing else to discuss. What right does an employee have to the employer's money, property, or resources other than what is agreed beween the employer and employee?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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