View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

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  • yes

    75 52.45%
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Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

  1. #181
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Let me see if I can explain what I was talking about.

    Take the workplace out of it for a second. If I go to a bar and ask a woman to go to bed with me, it's not against the law, correct? Thus, the idea of one person asking another for sex is not illegal. Now, keeping in mind the concept of this thread, if a male boss suggests to his female employee a sexual encounter, and she turns him down, the female has done nothing illegal, but HAS made a moral choice to refuse sex. Is it okay for her to make such a moral choice and be fired for it because the boss is mad, embarrassed, controlling, etc.?

    I think we both agree if an employer told an employee to rob a bank or lose their job, this should not be allowed. In that case, the employee is being asked to do something illegal, and you amended your position to say employees should not be able to be fired for refusing to break the law. But refusing sex (or asking for it) is not against the law, but it IS a moral (and sometimes religious decision). Are you okay with the idea of an employee being terminated for making a moral decision to not engage in sexual activity with their boss?

    The threadstarter said "any reason they wish"...I would assume it isn't limited to union protection, discrimination and the like. Any reason they wish would mean unadulterated power over hiring and firing.
    Well if it's not against any law, as I stated earlier, I stand by original comment. I support the employers right to hire and fire as they see fit. In the end if they abuse their employees it was cost them much more than a solid plan for retention.
    *insert profound statement here*

  2. #182
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    You said you are unaware of the motivation for a business.
    No I didn't. Please direct me to the post in this thread where I said that.

    What I said is that I get the feeling you feel you are making a point, but I have no idea what it is. So what is your point?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Well if it's not against any law, as I stated earlier, I stand by original comment. I support the employers right to hire and fire as they see fit. In the end if they abuse their employees it was cost them much more than a solid plan for retention.
    I can't help but notice you quoted an older post of mine, one you had already responded to. Maybe you missed my last one. Here it is again. I'm very interested to hear exactly how you feel about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I see...so you're okay with a woman being fired for refusing sex with her boss? I just want to know if this is really what you mean.
    So you are okay with this?

  3. #183
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    No I didn't.
    You are aware of the motivations, yet you cannot point them out in this thread? Do they seek profit or seek sex?

  4. #184
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    We are not arguing the ethics here. Of course a caring employer will accommodate the needs of his/her employees as much as is reasonable to do so. But unless the employer is able to serve his own interests, he has no liberty at all. The government who requires him to be 'compassionate' or 'understanding' of the personal needs of his employees is taking over control of that business and thereby is taking away the employer's control of his own assets and property and is treading on his unalienable right to look to his own interests. Such government initiative can be altruistic and can also be quite sinister and self serving to those in government, and that is why an employer should be able to hire and fire whomever he wishes.

    There is nothing that requires us to do business with the uncaring SOB. But liberty requires him to have the ability to be an SOB if that is the way he is.
    Has the government now decided it knows best how to handle a business environment? There are laws that already dictate what an employer is permitted to do, in every aspect of business...environmental, legal, wage and hour laws, fraud in misrepresenting their product, sexual harassment, and false advertising, to name a few.

    It seems to me that the "problem" the government seems to think exists is a self-correcting one that they needn't concern themselves with. If an employer is an SOB, he is going to lose his most valued employees who will not tolerate such treatment. Those who remain will doubtless be moved up the ladder; however if they were all that good, they should already have been there, with some exceptions. Then the employer has the expense of training and replacing those who moved up. If this scenario continues for any length of time, the employer will soon be out of business, because no one will want to work there, except people who wouldn't be hired anywhere else!

    Greetings, AlbqOwl.

  5. #185
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    There is already a segment of the population that is not afforded the 'opportunity' to succeed purely because the employer can't risk the chance that the person won't succeed but the employer will have a difficult time firing him/her. That is the dark side of affirmative action and it largely overwhelms the positive side.
    Now that I agree with! Affirmative Action only causes racism, it doesn't prevent it. I am not talking about that at all. What I was saying is it has to be against the law to use race, gender, etc... to make the hiring decision. It should be SOLELY on their character, talent, education, experience, professional appearance and personality. When I hire somebody, I don't consider anything else. I want the best person for the job, no matter what.

  6. #186
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetelestai View Post
    Now that I agree with! Affirmative Action only causes racism, it doesn't prevent it. I am not talking about that at all. What I was saying is it has to be against the law to use race, gender, etc... to make the hiring decision. It should be SOLELY on their character, talent, education, experience, professional appearance and personality. When I hire somebody, I don't consider anything else. I want the best person for the job, no matter what.
    AA/EO factually doesnt change this at all

    the issue and its one i have pointed out and one many other have pointed out on tv etc is AA has been thrown around so much that people dont know what it REALLY is.

    REALL AA/EO by law is equal OPPURTUNITY nothing else

    AA is a policy to not discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, or national origin

    there is NOTHING in AA that forces anybody to hire based on race, by definition that if factually not AA


    now with that said, have companies, schools etc had policies that THEY named AA and had quotas etc? yes absolutely and when caught and proved to be doing so they faced penalty of the law, as quotas are illegal.



    Thats where the problem is. AA/EO is just fine

    people practicing things NOT AA/EO and falsely calling it that is a problem

    theres women beaters out there that say they beat thier women because they love them, they say its done for love, that doesnt make it true.
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  7. #187
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I can't help but notice you quoted an older post of mine, one you had already responded to. Maybe you missed my last one. Here it is again. I'm very interested to hear exactly how you feel about this.

    So you are okay with this?
    I'll try this again...see below. My position is very clear here.

    You make a good point. I'll amend my position. So long as it is not in violation of the law. However, if it were not against the law and that were the reason then I'd be okay with it. Why? Because it's my company. I'm not saying this would make me a good employer, I'd be a complete asshole for firing someone for that. But still, my company means my risk. There would certainly be consequences. A smart business owner wouldn't get in that position to begin with.
    I'm not saying it's right or a good decision. But I don't think we should be regulating bad business decisions, and firing an employee for those things are bad business decisions. You won't last long as you won't be able to hire decent employees after a while. Plus other employees will be bailing to find other, more hospitable places to work.

    The argument really is getting taken to extremes. Just because you can doesn't mean you will. I can buy five gallons of vodka, but I wouldn't try to drink it all in one night because that would be bad for me. Just because I had the absolute authority to hire and fire without restriction doesn't mean I would abuse it. Your employees are your number one asset in most cases. At least in the business circles I operate in. Treating them terribly is a sure fire way to watch your business stagnate and eventually die.
    Let me put this yet one more way. I would support the freedom of employers to hire and fire as they see fit. Unregulated. It's up to them to make good business decisions or they reap the just rewards of their ill fated decisions. Just like I support Freedom of Speech. Unregulated. It's up to me to be wise about how I exercise that freedom as it will have consequences if I do not.

    We cannot anticipate the potential ugly side of "freedom." But that doesn't make hold back support of a "freedom" because I think somebody may act like an idiot and do something as abhorrent as fire an employee because they won't have sex with them. But why do you keep harping on sex? I'm curious as to your fixation there. Why does it matter? What if the employer didn't think that your lack of religion was morally sound and fired you because he disagreed with your lack of faith? Or what if your appearance was not to his liking, maybe you had too big of a butt for his personal liking so he fires you? A bad reason is a bad reason. However, if it's his money he should invest it as he sees fit. If he makes stupid investments and has a weak business acumen then he will fail. As he should. But NOBODY has a RIGHT to my money as an employer unless they earn it. And I should be able to decide who I want to employ and retain.
    *insert profound statement here*

  8. #188
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    AA is a policy to not discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, or national origin
    AA, in state school acceptance policies, is racial based discrimination. I will not respond unless you have facts or logic to prove this wrong.

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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    AA/EO factually doesnt change this at all

    the issue and its one i have pointed out and one many other have pointed out on tv etc is AA has been thrown around so much that people dont know what it REALLY is.

    REALL AA/EO by law is equal OPPURTUNITY nothing else

    AA is a policy to not discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, or national origin

    there is NOTHING in AA that forces anybody to hire based on race, by definition that if factually not AA


    now with that said, have companies, schools etc had policies that THEY named AA and had quotas etc? yes absolutely and when caught and proved to be doing so they faced penalty of the law, as quotas are illegal.



    Thats where the problem is. AA/EO is just fine

    people practicing things NOT AA/EO and falsely calling it that is a problem

    theres women beaters out there that say they beat thier women because they love them, they say its done for love, that doesnt make it true.

    I agree to a point, but even the government misuses the law as you say was intended. Thus it has gotten to the point that it represents (even if unintended) racism.

  10. #190
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    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    AA, in state school acceptance policies, is racial based discrimination. I will not respond unless you have facts or logic to prove this wrong.
    oh this is going to be GREAT! lmao

    i actually have no clue what you are trying to say, so are you claiming the facts i actually posted are wrong? yes or no
    <crickets>
    Last edited by AGENT J; 01-25-14 at 10:29 PM.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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