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Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

  • yes

    Votes: 59 48.0%
  • no

    Votes: 64 52.0%

  • Total voters
    123
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)But that still isn't the point.
2.) The point is whether we have the unalienable right to use our money, our property, our resources that we acquired legally and ethically for our own benefit and for our own interests so long as we do not violate the rights of any other.
3.) Does that employee have any right to that money, that property, those resources other than what he or she agrees with the employer?
4.) And if the employer no longer needs or wants that employee for whatever reason, and no agreement with the employee is violated, why should the employer not let the employee go?
5.)The reason is really immaterial.

1.) so you admit that point was false and held no merit? I agree
2.) i agree and illegal discrimination does violate the rights of others so theres the correct answer
3.) this is NOT the argument at all by any means what so ever lol the right is not to be unfairly and unlawfully discriminated against
4.) again not the argument, only illegal discrimination and violating rights is. Trying to reframe the topic wont change it.
the employer is free to not hire or fire an employee for any reason it wants as long as it doenst violate the employee's rights
5.) 100% false if its illegal discrimination and violates rights its 100% material
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.) so you admit that point was false and held no merit? I agree
2.) i agree and illegal discrimination does violate the rights of others so theres the correct answer
3.) this is NOT the argument at all by any means what so ever lol the right is not to be unfairly and unlawfully discriminated against
4.) again not the argument, only illegal discrimination and violating rights is. Trying to reframe the topic wont change it.
the employer is free to not hire or fire an employee for any reason it wants as long as it doenst violate the employee's rights
5.) 100% false if its illegal discrimination and violates rights its 100% material

Non sequitur and non responsive, I'm afraid. A person's gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nor any other criteria pertains to the point I was making.

Please explain why the employee has any right to money, property, or resources that the employer has legally and ethically acquired? And how does it violate anybody's rights if the employer chooses to keep these rather than trade them for somebody's labor?
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)Non sequitur and non responsive, I'm afraid.
2.) A person's gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nor any other criteria pertains to the point I was making.
3.)Please explain why the employee has any right to money, property, or resources that the employer has legally and ethically acquired?
4.) And how does it violate anybody's rights if the employer chooses to keep these rather than trade them for somebody's labor?

1.) only because it defeats your reframing and made it meaningless, be afraid all you want until you can argue against it you got nothing.
2.) then do tell what is your point?
3.) lol ok read this slow, THIS IS A STRAWMAN. That is factually not the argument or discussion. Never said the employe has that right but ask me 5 more times and try to keep deflecting it will keep failing
4.) if an employee illegal discrimination that violates rights, try to reframe it however you want it will fail since we are dealing in reality and fact

sorry people have rights and the employer doesnt get to violate them :shrug:

your task is to provide any logical reason why an employer should be allowed to violate rights but im guessing your next post will be another deflection, strawman and attempt to reframe
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

Non sequitur and non responsive, I'm afraid. A person's gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, nor any other criteria pertains to the point I was making.

Please explain why the employee has any right to money, property, or resources that the employer has legally and ethically acquired? And how does it violate anybody's rights if the employer chooses to keep these rather than trade them for somebody's labor?

He does that.

I gave up trying, perhaps you will have better fortune...you seem more patient then I.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.) only because it defeats your reframing and made it meaningless, be afraid all you want until you can argue against it you got nothing.
2.) then do tell what is your point?
3.) lol ok read this slow, THIS IS A STRAWMAN. That is factually not the argument or discussion. Never said the employe has that right but ask me 5 more times and try to keep deflecting it will keep failing
4.) if an employee illegal discrimination that violates rights, try to reframe it however you want it will fail since we are dealing in reality and fact

sorry people have rights and the employer doesnt get to violate them :shrug:

your task is to provide any logical reason why an employer should be allowed to violate rights but im guessing your next post will be another deflection, strawman and attempt to reframe

None of what I possted is non sequitur to the point I was making . And until you answer the one and only pertinent questin related to the point I was making, we have nothing else to discuss. What right does an employee have to the employer's money, property, or resources other than what is agreed beween the employer and employee?
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

None of what I possted is non sequitur to the point I was making . And until you answer the one and only pertinent questin related to the point I was making, we have nothing else to discuss. What right does an employee have to the employer's money, property, or resources other than what is agreed beween the employer and employee?
called it!
a deflection, dodge and reframe

thank you, i accept your concession :shrug:

you are right, until you can provide one factual or logical reason to allow an employer to violate our rights theres nothign to discuss because you have nothing, let me know when you do
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

LOL, I see what you mean DA60. I always was something of a glutton for punishment and tend to give even the most determined thread derailers a chance to come on board. But when they refuse to answer the simplest, most logical, most pertinent question, you know they're running on empty. So I'm done with that one for now.

Interesting topic though.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

LOL, I see what you mean DA60. I always was something of a glutton for punishment and tend to give even the most determined thread derailers a chance to come on board. But when they refuse to answer the simplest, most logical, most pertinent question, you know they're running on empty. So I'm done with that one for now.

Interesting topic though.

another deflection and zero facts or logical support, thats what i thought you still cant post any support for you point/question.


pertinent?

ok

simply, FACTUALLY, explain why your question is pertinent to a thread about firing and hiring for any reason and that would be illegal discrimination

your question has as much merit as asking what color the grass is, if you disagree, by all means explain using facts why it is pertinent, I cant wait to read this. lol
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.) so you admit that point was false and held no merit? I agree
2.) i agree and illegal discrimination does violate the rights of others so theres the correct answer
3.) this is NOT the argument at all by any means what so ever lol the right is not to be unfairly and unlawfully discriminated against
4.) again not the argument, only illegal discrimination and violating rights is. Trying to reframe the topic wont change it.
the employer is free to not hire or fire an employee for any reason it wants as long as it doenst violate the employee's rights
5.) 100% false if its illegal discrimination and violates rights its 100% material
Why?

Why is all this **** illegal?
Why SHOULD it be illegal?

You're saying "it's wrong because it's illegal", but that's no argument at all.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

Why?

Why is all this **** illegal?
Why SHOULD it be illegal?

You're saying "it's wrong because it's illegal", but that's no argument at all.

ahh now i see where you issue and mistake is

i wasnt interested in making an argument, nor did i try, i was simply stating facts.

If you would like to argue the facts should change, those rights should change and try to come up with good reasons to violate people's rights or take them away by all means have at it, ill gladly listen

but i prefer to stick with those rights, I like my government protecting my rights and yours and the civility they bring to our society/country :shrug:
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

I think they should be able to hire using any criteria they choose, but once hired, they should not be able to fire without just cause.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)I think they should be able to hire using any criteria they choose, but once hired
2.) they should not be able to fire without just cause.

1.)so you are ok with hiring discrimination based on religion gender race etc?
2.) this is basically how it is now.

but for me since this part is not regulated by law and involves only my opinion im fine with somebody firing a person for ANY reason they choose as long as its not illegal.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

ahh now i see where you issue and mistake is

i wasnt interested in making an argument, nor did i try, i was simply stating facts.

If you would like to argue the facts should change, those rights should change and try to come up with good reasons to violate people's rights or take them away by all means have at it, ill gladly listen

but i prefer to stick with those rights, I like my government protecting my rights and yours and the civility they bring to our society/country :shrug:
So all you wish to do is say "FACTS!" and point at current laws and the court rulings on them?

What's the point of your being in this thread then?

Seeing as the entire thread is about whether current laws and the court rulings on them are the correct path.

Edit: Effectively, all you're doing is saying "Yes!", and not making any attempt to prove your position.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)So all you wish to do is say "FACTS!" and point at current laws and the court rulings on them?

2.)What's the point of your being in this thread then?

3.)Seeing as the entire thread is about whether current laws and the court rulings on them are the correct path.

1.) nope , guess you didnt read my last post here i quote it
"If you would like to argue the facts should change, those rights should change and try to come up with good reasons to violate people's rights or take them away by all means have at it, ill gladly listen"

so there you have it

2.) see #1

3.) this would be false since i was here early in the thread and now late but again see #1

if you have a good reason to violate peoples rights or for taking them away feel free to state it, its gonna have to be really good but feel free
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)so you are ok with hiring discrimination based on religion gender race etc?
2.) this is basically how it is now.

but for me since this part is not regulated by law and involves only my opinion im fine with somebody firing a person for ANY reason they choose as long as its not illegal.

I think an employer should be able to 'discriminate' if he/she so chooses. Doesn't mean I agree with it, just that it is none of the govt's business.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)I think an employer should be able to 'discriminate' if he/she so chooses. Doesn't mean I agree with it
2.) just that it is none of the govt's business.

1.) sorry didnt mean to imply you agree with it i just wanted clarification
2.) rights are none of the governments business?

how would you regulate unjust firing?
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

None of what I possted is non sequitur to the point I was making . And until you answer the one and only pertinent questin related to the point I was making, we have nothing else to discuss. What right does an employee have to the employer's money, property, or resources other than what is agreed beween the employer and employee?

When a person is hired as an employee at a particular company, they know what their salary will be, as well as what their duties will be. If they hadn't agreed, they wouldn't be working there. Maybe I have missed the point of this thread, but even if the employee later finds out that his employer makes 10 times what he does, what difference does that make? That still doesn't entitle them to anything the employer has! I realize that lately the mantra has been that, for some reason, people are being told that they do, but in the real world, that's :bs:! Most of us would not be unhappy to suddenly find our paychecks have been increased 1,000-fold, but the chances of that happening are slim to none! This isn't the lottery...it's business. :shock: Everyone who likes the idea of "robbing Peter to give to Paul" always imagine themselves as being Paul...never Peter! Sheesh!

Greetings, AlbuOwl. :2wave:
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

if you have a good reason to violate peoples rights or for taking them away feel free to state it, its gonna have to be really good but feel free
The question is whether the rights you claim would be violated exist at all.

Does someone have a right to not be fired because of some aspect of their personality/biology? Or to be hired because of same?

If so, why?
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.) sorry didnt mean to imply you agree with it i just wanted clarification
2.) rights are none of the governments business?

how would you regulate unjust firing?

I believe we should end the unjustness of denying and disparaging the rights of labor, who tend to be the least wealthy in our republic, regarding the concept and legal doctrine of employment at will and unemployment compensation in any at-will employment State.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)The question is whether the rights you claim would be violated exist at all.
2.)Does someone have a right to not be fired because of some aspect of their personality/biology?
3.) Or to be hired because of same?
4.)If so, why?

1.) yes they factually exist :shrug:
2.) yes people factually have the right to not be illegally discriminated against, its equal and civil rights
3.) no one has this right. The right is again illegal discrimination its equal and civil rights
4.) again with this, so YOU dont have a good reason to violate rights or take them away? let me know when you do and we can discuss it.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.) yes they factually exist :shrug:
2.) yes people factually have the right to not be illegally discriminated against, its equal and civil rights
3.) no one has this right. The right is again illegal discrimination its equal and civil rights
4.) again with this, so YOU dont have a good reason to violate rights or take them away? let me know when you do and we can discuss it.
You're doing it again.

"They exist because they are fact" proves nothing. Especially in this case, as the rights in question demonstrably are not facts, but rather opinions made into law and/or interpreted from law.

I'm not claiming we do or do not have these rights, I'm asking you to show why you believe we should.


For myself, I am of two minds on the matter. On the one hand, I dislike laws because they restrict individual freedom. On the other hand, I like laws because they restrict individual freedom.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

I believe we should end the unjustness of denying and disparaging the rights of labor, who tend to be the least wealthy in our republic, regarding the concept and legal doctrine of employment at will and unemployment compensation in any at-will employment State.



im not familiar with how employment at will affects unemployment, youll have to explain or ill look it up when im i can
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.)You're doing it again.

2.)"They exist because they are fact" proves nothing.

3.)Especially in this case, as the rights in question demonstrably are not facts, but rather opinions made into law and/or interpreted from law.

4.) I'm not claiming we do or do not have these rights

5.), I'm asking you to show why you believe we should.

6.)For myself, I am of two minds on the matter. On the one hand, I dislike laws because they restrict individual freedom. On the other hand, I like laws because they restrict individual freedom.

1.) nope i told you what YOU have to do and until that happens theres nothing to discuss lol, sorry you dont get your way
this is what i said, if you have a good reason to violate peoples rights or for taking them away feel free to state it, its gonna have to be really good but feel free

ignoring it wont make me just do what you want lol

2.) not trying to currently prove anything, your mistake again

3.) currently they are facts unless removed from law so until you can fulfill #1 you got nothing

4.) did say you did

5.) yes i understand what you are asking, see #1 again or my previous posts

6.) nothing wrong with that opinion :shrug:

again if you want a discussion the steps are spelled out on what to do in #1
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

1.) nope i told you what YOU have to do and until that happens theres nothing to discuss lol, sorry you dont get your way
this is what i said, if you have a good reason to violate peoples rights or for taking them away feel free to state it, its gonna have to be really good but feel free

ignoring it wont make me just do what you want lol

2.) not trying to currently prove anything, your mistake again

3.) currently they are facts unless removed from law so until you can fulfill #1 you got nothing

4.) did say you did

5.) yes i understand what you are asking, see #1 again or my previous posts

6.) nothing wrong with that opinion :shrug:

again if you want a discussion the steps are spelled out on what to do in #1
Since do not recall ever making any such point, how the hell can it be relevant that I never proved said point valid?

Stating that "this is the way it is because it is fact" is not attempting to prove something? Not sure how that's a mistake on my part - miscommunication on your part, perhaps.

If so, then said facts are irrelevant to this discussion, since as I understand it we're attempting to debate whether they should be part of law at all. Thus claiming that they should be part of law because they are part of law already is...Bizarre...

Ok.

I still don't see the relevance of your #1 to my question. Or are you just arbitrarily stating that I must prove some random point you pulled out of your hat before you address my question?

Excellent.
 
Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

Since do not recall ever making any such point, how the hell can it be relevant that I never proved said point valid?

Stating that "this is the way it is because it is fact" is not attempting to prove something? Not sure how that's a mistake on my part - miscommunication on your part, perhaps.

If so, then said facts are irrelevant to this discussion, since as I understand it we're attempting to debate whether they should be part of law at all. Thus claiming that they should be part of law because they are part of law already is...Bizarre...

Ok.

I still don't see the relevance of your #1 to my question. Or are you just arbitrarily stating that I must prove some random point you pulled out of your hat before you address my question?

Excellent.

this isnt difficult
if you feel you have a good reason to violate peoples rights or for taking them away feel free to state it :shrug:
 
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