View Poll Results: should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason

Voters
143. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes

    75 52.45%
  • no

    68 47.55%
Page 12 of 63 FirstFirst ... 210111213142262 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 626

Thread: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish[W:126]

  1. #111
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Britain, Mother of Civilisation
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    468

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    How does your absurd political slant propose to "ban" people from thinking certain things?
    I don't. If I could, somehow, prohibit people from thinking of paedophilia, rape, etc., then I would -- but no one can do that. It's a moot point.

    The whole argument is a strawman that Scatt is putting up to avoid explaining why he or she doesn't think laws protecting people from discrimination are a good idea.

    But that's okay -- I can spoil the ending for you, because it'll take a while to get it out of Scatt: The reason is, Scatt is absurdly conservative and probably believes that America is under siege from liberals attempting to impoverish the white middle-class male in favour of immigrants of various ethnicities, sexual preferences and religions.

    In other words, Scatt is a bigot -- a racist, a homophobe, and most likely a Christian fundamentalist. And this person doesn't like laws that protect those mildly dissimilar to him or her.

  2. #112
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    And if an employee quits a job without notice and without sufficient cause, that employee should be forced to compensate his employer for damages. Seems fair.
    Who gets to show what actual damages the loss of that one employee did to a company? The employer? With their money and team of lawyers against a single employee? And who decides what is sufficient cause? Plus, what if there are extenuating circumstances where a person can't help but quit without notice? Most employees cannot afford a lawyer, especially if there are circumstances where they had to quit their job, while most employers, especially those that would employ the most people, can easily afford a team of lawyers to crucify a former employee.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #113
    Sage
    Slyfox696's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    7,982

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    You make a good point. I'll amend my position. So long as it is not in violation of the law. However, if it were not against the law and that were the reason then I'd be okay with it. Why? Because it's my company. I'm not saying this would make me a good employer, I'd be a complete asshole for firing someone for that. But still, my company means my risk. There would certainly be consequences. A smart business owner wouldn't get in that position to begin with.
    I like the way you've amended your position, but asking an employee for sex is not against the law. If your daughter's boss asks her to have sex and she turns him down because he's a creepy old man, you're okay with your daughter losing her job and no longer being able to provide for her family?

    I understand the desire to remove problems for an employer, but the problem is how power is so often used inappropriately. Those who complain about government interference don't seem to understand government interference usually occurs because someone abused the lack of regulation.

  4. #114
    Revolutionary
    TNAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,018
    Blog Entries
    17

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    I don't. If I could, somehow, prohibit people from thinking of paedophilia, rape, etc., then I would -- but no one can do that. It's a moot point.
    I cannot speak for Scatt so I cannot say the intention there, but I don't think you can prohibit a person from acting any more than you can from thinking. The government spends billions on dollars attempting to prevent people from ingesting certain substances, but has utterly failed. They have certainly created a large prison population from the fight, but drug use has increased. The prohibition of alcohol was an utter failure. Every government on the face of the planet has prohibited murder for all of human history, but that has not ceased to exist.

    So while you may find it ideal to prohibit someone from discriminating in an "evil" manner, it is no less a pipe dream than preventing someone from thinking those things.

  5. #115
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Britain, Mother of Civilisation
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    468

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    I cannot speak for Scatt so I cannot say the intention there, but I don't think you can prohibit a person from acting any more than you can from thinking. The government spends billions on dollars attempting to prevent people from ingesting certain substances, but has utterly failed. They have certainly created a large prison population from the fight, but drug use has increased. The prohibition of alcohol was an utter failure. Every government on the face of the planet has prohibited murder for all of human history, but that has not ceased to exist.

    So while you may find it ideal to prohibit someone from discriminating in an "evil" manner, it is no less a pipe dream than preventing someone from thinking those things.
    You seem like an intelligent fellow, so I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt here. Respectfully, I think you're committing a logical all-or-nothing fallacy. It is true that the prohibition on murder hasn't stamped it out entirely -- but that's not to say that murder being illegal hasn't prevented a lot of it from happening! Imagine if it were legal to murder. Preposterous, I know, but surely you can agree that there would be a lot more of it in such a world?

    Secondly, if murder were legal, there would be no legal recourse for those disadvantaged by murder -- upset your father's employer decided to murder him? Tough luck, but murder's legal.

    Discrimination can't be stamped out entirely, but making it illegal and providing an avenue for legal action against those suspected of undertaking discriminatory action goes a long way to lessening its impact.

  6. #116
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,792

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    How about firing because the employee refused to do something which violates the law? Or violates moral or religious principles?
    The first is likely illegal, depending on what's being asked, but the second, sure, why not? No one has a right to have a job. So long as what is being asked is not illegal, I see no problem with an employer terminating an employee for refusing to do the job they were hired to do.

    So if you proposition sex to one of your female employees and she turns you down, you should have the right to fire her?
    That's outrightly illegal, therefore no. Yeah, I know that wasn't aimed at me, but there you go.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  7. #117
    Sage
    Slyfox696's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    7,982

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The first is likely illegal depending on what's being asked,
    But that's the point of this thread, is it not? Giving employers freedom to hire/fire for any reason?

    but the second, sure, why not?
    See next statement.

    That's outrightly illegal, therefore no. Yeah, I know that wasn't aimed at me, but there you go.
    It's not outright illegal, it's not even sort of illegal. If I'm a boss, and I go to my employee and say "Hey, I think you're sexy, let's go back to my office and tear one off" and she refuses, then nothing illegal has happened. If I then fire her because I'm embarrassed or mad or whatever, then nothing illegal has happened. If I made a condition of her employment (and getting paid) her having sex with me, then yes, that's probably illegal. But simply asking for sex and getting mad/embarrassed about it is not.

    So are you okay with a woman being fired because he boss tried to have sex with her and was refused (a moral and sometimes religious position)?

  8. #118
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,792

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    But that's the point of this thread, is it not? Giving employers freedom to hire/fire for any reason?
    For any reason that doesn't violate existing law, yes.

    It's not outright illegal, it's not even sort of illegal. If I'm a boss, and I go to my employee and say "Hey, I think you're sexy, let's go back to my office and tear one off" and she refuses, then nothing illegal has happened. If I then fire her because I'm embarrassed or mad or whatever, then nothing illegal has happened. If I made a condition of her employment (and getting paid) her having sex with me, then yes, that's probably illegal. But simply asking for sex and getting mad/embarrassed about it is not.

    So are you okay with a woman being fired because he boss tried to have sex with her and was refused (a moral and sometimes religious position)?
    It's absolutely illegal, you need to look into sexual harassment laws. Companies loose billions of dollars every year in civil lawsuits over sexual harassment.

    Try again.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  9. #119
    Revolutionary
    TNAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,018
    Blog Entries
    17

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    It is true that the prohibition on murder hasn't stamped it out entirely -- but that's not to say that murder being illegal hasn't prevented a lot of it from happening! Imagine if it were legal to murder. Preposterous, I know, but surely you can agree that there would be a lot more of it in such a world?
    Legality is nothing more than the codification of social norms. Murder, even if it were not prohibited, would not be more common because it would still be considered immoral by the vast majority of the population. Supposing murder was not declared illegal (not the same thing as being legal, mind you), it would not detract from the ability of potential victims to deter and counter attempts at murder.

    Discrimination is really no different. Despite a million laws against it, people will always discriminate against other people because it is a basic part of human nature to do so. Suppose you were the hiring manager at a distribution warehouse and needed to hire a forklift driver. Would you hire the person who had three years forklift experience or the person with no forklift experience? Obviously the one with experience. You have just discriminated on the basis of forklift driving experience.

    I realize that it sounds silly, but this is because the term "discrimination" has taken on a negative connotation in today's world of political correct hysteria. Discrimination is how every individual chooses a mate, who to associate with, which products to purchase, which job to pursue. In short, every aspect of life is determined through discrimination.

    When a person discriminates in a manner offensive to another, it is certainly distasteful, but why should the behavior be prosecuted? So a business only wants to hire black actors and display black programs and even go so far as to call his channel Black Entertainment Television. So what? Anyone who finds that offensive will not contribute money towards that venture and he will have to gamble his success on the hopes of enough people who are similarly bigoted as himself. So a business wants to hire only people who believe in the Catholic faith and only allow customers who similarly follow the Catholic faith and even goes so far as to call his business a Catholic church. So what? Those who don't believe in the Catholic faith will not give money to his venture.

    So goes for people who hate whites, Latinos, Asians, Arabs, men, women, children, blondes, redheads, disabled people, and any other factor you may deem distasteful. By denying a person the ability to be open about their biases, you force them under the surface where they can fester and become violent. Prohibition and southern reconstruction are excellent examples of this.

    But once again, the lack of legislation prohibiting an action does not imply legality. The appropriateness of an action is determined by social convention and only sometimes further codified into law (in many cases law is actually in contradistinction to social convention and is largely ignored).

  10. #120
    Sage
    Slyfox696's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    7,982

    Re: Should employers have the freedom to hire/fire for any reason they wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    For any reason that doesn't violate existing law, yes.
    ...I don't think you understand what I meant.

    It's absolutely illegal, you need to look into sexual harassment laws. Companies loose billions of dollars every year in civil lawsuits over sexual harassment.

    Try again.
    I literally just slapped my forehead after reading your post. It is not illegal for a man to ask a woman to bed. For you to claim it is is beyond absurd. Furthermore, we're discussing this thread under the idea employers can fire for ANY REASON they wish.

    I will not try again, I tried quite well the first time. Perhaps you ought to try again.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 01-24-14 at 12:20 PM.

Page 12 of 63 FirstFirst ... 210111213142262 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •