View Poll Results: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

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    15 45.45%
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    12 36.36%
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    8 24.24%
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Thread: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

  1. #41
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Somebody has to run the healthcare system. Insurance companies have your best interests at heart even less than governments do.
    On the contrary - both are dominated by men and women seeking their own self interests, which, as you point out, may have little to do with me.

    With one notable exception. Someone seeking to sell me a product requires my personal approval. Their interests require that they first offer me something which I perceive as being worth at least as much if not more than the price I am paying; and then, if their interests lead them in directions inimical to mine, I can chuck them overboard relatively easily. Politicians do not face that incentive structure. They do not require my personal approval. They also cannot be chucked overboard - thanks to the magic of gerrymandering, congresscritters can choose their voters rather than be chosen by them, and all they have to do is get the approval of enough others to counter-weigh my opposition. They have very reduced, very mitigated, and often non-existent incentives to see that our interests align, whereas someone attempting to sell me something has very strong incentives to see that our interests align.

    There is no better reason for health insurance agencies to run the health care sector than there is for the association of restaurateurs to run the restaurant industry. Consumers should be driving both.


    But we are getting off-topic.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-20-14 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The question is whether you feel nationalism and patriotism are good for humanity or if they are bad.


    Here's a working definition for both: Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related construct of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions.


    My opinion: neither serves any purpose except to rob us of the individualism that makes us unique human beings.
    This is a very narrow definition of what nationalism and patriotism do for us. We are a democracy, nominally based on the will of the majority and the good of the group. Buying into that good and will is part of the price of the protection you get for being part of the "tribe". If you believe that "robs" you of your individualism then perhaps the group is not for you. There is nothing wrong with that. One has to be willing to give up the benefits of being part of the group however to travel down that path.

    Are you sure you don't want your cake............and part of mine too?

    I don't feel that I have lost my individualism even though I believe in my country and political system.

  3. #43
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    We're talking about tribalism, the last speedbump in our evolution. Patriotism is like the cultural equivalent of our vestigial tail.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

  4. #44
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Worthy of note that, in those selecting "Yes" in the poll, indicating love of country, respect for the Obama government is low, while the converse is generally true for those selecting "No." They love the destroyer and the destruction.

    Certainly we are watching our once beautiful America die as the dark cloud of rampant, shrieking Liberal rage and hatred suffocates our culture of freedom.

    In direct opposition to the statements of the OP, the truly foolish are those who think that, in the end game, they will retain their freedoms, individuality and ability to be "different" without the traditional America that they hate so much and that so many good men died to create and preserve. Their gloating is childlike in its naivety.
    Last edited by Ray410; 01-21-14 at 05:12 AM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The question is whether you feel nationalism and patriotism are good for humanity or if they are bad.


    Here's a working definition for both: Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related construct of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions.


    My opinion: neither serves any purpose except to rob us of the individualism that makes us unique human beings.
    Nationalism/patriotism is a good thing.A politician who is piece of **** globalist will sell your nation's sovereignty down the toilet while a politician who is a nationalist/patriotic will defend your country's sovereignty.

    Nationalism | Define Nationalism at Dictionary.com

    1.
    spirit or aspirations common to the whole of a nation.
    2.
    devotion and loyalty to one's own country; patriotism.
    3.
    excessive patriotism; chauvinism.
    4.
    the desire for national advancement or political independence.
    5.
    the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #46
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    There is a difference between nationalism and patriotism. Nationalism all in all is bad however. Patriotism isnt always bad.


  7. #47
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Patriotism is good. It means to care for your village/town/city an local community. After all "pat(d)re" means "father".
    Nationalism is good as long as your homeland is not an empire and you are defensive.
    Nationalism is bad if your nation is an empire, offensive criminal, trying to conquer other lands and people.

  8. #48
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    It's good -- well, can be. But this can depend on what it's rooted in. In America, for example, people's patriotism is rooted in this nation's ideals, feats, history, etc. It has little to do with who is sitting in the Oval Office or in the most recent Congressional hearing. There are many that dislike, mistrust, or even hate the government but love America. That's just how patriotism in the US works. It can drive people to accomplish great things and live to a certain higher set of values (big example is the Space Race with the Soviets decades ago). However, ultranationalism can compel people to unjust causes and viewpoints, but that can go for many things. Too much of anything can be a bad thing.

    Not to mention, ethnocentrism is a problem you should always be wary of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Why is our military "da bomb?"
    It's those badass jets and super carriers, man.

    I guess attacking other countries in offensive wars makes us the bomb?
    Technically.....
    Last edited by Van Basten; 01-22-14 at 10:50 AM.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

  9. #49
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The question is whether you feel nationalism and patriotism are good for humanity or if they are bad.


    Here's a working definition for both: Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related construct of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions.


    My opinion: neither serves any purpose except to rob us of the individualism that makes us unique human beings.
    Lest we forget :
    United we stand, divided we fall.
    We do seem to be divided......we have yet to fall....
    Also..........................
    Blind nationalism is not so hot...(Germany 30s,40s)
    Lets keep our eyes open and the blinders off.
    I voted "other" .

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