View Poll Results: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

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    12 36.36%
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Thread: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

  1. #31
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And who is King of America?



    True - and their experience is precisely why our Founders feared devolving into such a system.
    Authority is still authority, whether it's one man with a beard and a crown or a roomful of men in a parliament. They still have their own interests which have little to do with you.

    With enough money, you can buy anything... including airtime, judges, and politicians.

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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well luckily for you, I don't see nationalism going away any time soon. The gullible masses will always be gullible. The lemmings will jump off a cliff when they're told to do so.

    America is nothing more than the sum of all the Americans. Yet we're led to believe that we have this grand mission in the world. Horse****.
    A world in which the western ideals embodied by America are dominant is a world in which those ideals are spread. I support those ideals, and so I support our dominance.

  3. #33
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Authority is still authority, whether it's one man with a beard and a crown or a roomful of men in a parliament. They still have their own interests which have little to do with you.
    Interesting to see you turn so quickly against the possibility of government acting in my good interests. Thank goodness those people aren't in charge of my healthcare, eh?

    With enough money, you can buy anything... including airtime, judges, and politicians.
    and you will only do so if it is within your interests, which it only will be if the ROI is higher than alternatives. That requires that politicians be able to steer the economy your way. Whenever you legislate buying and selling, the first things bought and sold will be legislators.

  4. #34
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    I have 2 passports/citizenships, only time it is an issue is if they play a soccer match against each other.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

  5. #35
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well luckily for you, I don't see nationalism going away any time soon. The gullible masses will always be gullible. The lemmings will jump off a cliff when they're told to do so.

    America is nothing more than the sum of all the Americans. Yet we're led to believe that we have this grand mission in the world. Horse****.
    If they are gullible, then perhaps nationalism is a good thing. I prefer nationalism to the supposedly enlightened viewpoint of radical individualists who are so taken in with utopianism, that any consultation with traditional hierarchy is akin to a pact with the Devil.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Interesting to see you turn so quickly against the possibility of government acting in my good interests. Thank goodness those people aren't in charge of my healthcare, eh?



    and you will only do so if it is within your interests, which it only will be if the ROI is higher than alternatives. That requires that politicians be able to steer the economy your way. Whenever you legislate buying and selling, the first things bought and sold will be legislators.
    Somebody has to run the healthcare system. Insurance companies have your best interests at heart even less than governments do.

    I think everyone should have access to healthcare, not just the rich.

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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    A world in which the western ideals embodied by America are dominant is a world in which those ideals are spread. I support those ideals, and so I support our dominance.
    What ideals are those? I have my ideals, you have yours, I doubt my ideals overlap with yours any more than then do with a random Australian. So where does nationalism come in to the picture?

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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    If they are gullible, then perhaps nationalism is a good thing. I prefer nationalism to the supposedly enlightened viewpoint of radical individualists who are so taken in with utopianism, that any consultation with traditional hierarchy is akin to a pact with the Devil.
    Utopianism?

  9. #39
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    The problem with nationalism and patriotism is that they are usually accompanied by this;
    jin·go·ism noun \ˈjiŋ-(ˌ)gō-ˌi-zəm\
    : the feelings and beliefs of people who think that their country is always right and who are in favor of aggressive acts against other countries

  10. #40
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What ideals are those? I have my ideals, you have yours,
    well, from a governing perspective, things like the notion that rights belong to individuals, the importance of rule of law, that speech thought should be generally free, that women are co-equal individuals rather than property, that government should be representative in nature and that people should be able to choose their representatives free from threats or coercion, that it is better for countries to exchange goods than exchange bombs, the notion that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, etc.

    I doubt my ideals overlap with yours any more than then do with a random Australian.
    Very likely, given that that random Australian is also a product of not just Western intellectual development, but of Englands' Western intellectual development. If we were able to transition from a U.S. dominance in East Asia to an Australian dominance in a manner similar to the England-U.S. hand-off of 65 odd years ago, all to the good. But that is not what is likely to happen - the major regional powers outside of Western Europe are not advocates of our major common ideals, but rather generally authoritarian in nature.

    What are you willing to bet on our overlap v that of (say) a random Pakistani's? How do you feel about the Chinese Communist Party's dedication to free speech, Putin's dedication to tolerance and representative government, or Iran's dedication to treating women equally?
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-20-14 at 11:40 PM.

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