View Poll Results: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

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Thread: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The question is whether you feel nationalism and patriotism are good for humanity or if they are bad.


    Here's a working definition for both: Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related construct of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions.


    My opinion: neither serves any purpose except to rob us of the individualism that makes us unique human beings.



    I agree.

    I think 'nationalism' and 'patriotism' are words that politicians trundle out every time they want to get the ignorant masses to back them on something they otherwise could not justify.


    Note - I guess we can agree on some things...
    Last edited by DA60; 01-20-14 at 10:18 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The question is whether you feel nationalism and patriotism are good for humanity or if they are bad.


    Here's a working definition for both: Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related construct of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions.


    My opinion: neither serves any purpose except to rob us of the individualism that makes us unique human beings.
    Ideologies are like clothing. It depends on how you wear them.

    If you don't have good sense and morals and no concept of honor and humanity, nationalism is probably one of the worst things that could happen to you and everybody else.

    Problem is, nationalism exerts the most attraction on people who lack good sense and morals and have a diminished concept of honor and humanity.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 01-20-14 at 10:20 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Reminds me of my John Stuart Mill.



    So, of course, you voted for John McCain, whose son at the time was a Lance Corporal in the Marine Corps Infantry?
    You have your quotes, and I have mine. I take your John Stuart Mill and raise you one Achilles.


  4. #24
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Ideologies are like clothing. It depends on how you wear them.

    If you don't have good sense and morals and no concept of honor and humanity, nationalism is probably one of the worst things that could happen to you and everybody else.

    Problem is, nationalism exerts the most attraction on people who lack good sense and morals and have a diminished concept of honor and humanity.
    I equate nationalism with foolishness and gullibility. They get you to blindly follow orders for flag and country when all you're doing is serving their interests and lining their pockets, rather than your own.

    John Kerry won two purple hearts, George W Bush's daddy hid him away in the Coast Guard away from all the action. Who was more willing to send your kids off to war? People sent their kids to fight and die for president bush but he did not do the same when it was his time.

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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I equate nationalism with foolishness and gullibility. They get you to blindly follow orders for flag and country when all you're doing is serving their interests and lining their pockets, rather than your own.

    John Kerry won two purple hearts, George W Bush's daddy hid him away in the Coast Guard away from all the action. Who was more willing to send your kids off to war? People sent their kids to fight and die for president bush but he did not do the same when it was his time.
    That's the same as saying there's some good and some evil. That'll be true regardless of political system or ideology; humans distill their fallibility into everything they do or make.

    It's one reason I roll my eyes when people talk about term limits, as if the wicked won't find another angle to exploit the system.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You have your quotes, and I have mine. I take your John Stuart Mill and raise you one Achilles.

    I will happily take Mill over Brad Pitt.

  7. #27
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    As with most things human it can be both good and bad depending on the situation. It can turn into xenophobic attitudes but it can also bring a country together to accomplish a difficult task - like defeating the Axis in WWII.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-20-14 at 10:54 PM.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I will happily take Mill over Brad Pitt.
    It's in The Iliad, but it's punchier to link the Hollywood version. Achilles is the first true action hero... and like the heroes of the day he fought for himself and not a king.

    In a way it typifies greek democracy, which was much more "democratic," shall we say, than our own version.

  9. #29
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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    It's in The Iliad, but it's punchier to link the Hollywood version. Achilles is the first true action hero... and like the heroes of the day he fought for himself and not a king.
    And who is King of America?

    In a way it typifies greek democracy, which was much more "democratic," shall we say, than our own version.
    True - and their experience is precisely why our Founders feared devolving into such a system.

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    Re: Are nationalism/patriotism good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Nationalism is a broad concept. While people tend to think of oppressive regimes and international instability, it is also a stabilizing force and a force for self-determination. Without nationalism, it becomes immensely difficult for groups around the world to see themselves as being able to (or justified in) self-rule. When rule is established, nationalism continues its stabilizing presence, though it too can descend into exaggeration. Nevertheless, the notion that one group finds themselves unique or modestly to moderately superior is hardly in of itself a bad thing. Rather, it is quite common and can even be good.

    Well luckily for you, I don't see nationalism going away any time soon. The gullible masses will always be gullible. The lemmings will jump off a cliff when they're told to do so.

    America is nothing more than the sum of all the Americans. Yet we're led to believe that we have this grand mission in the world. Horse****.

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