View Poll Results: After reading the opening post:

Voters
28. You may not vote on this poll
  • I can support the proposed resolution as written.

    5 17.86%
  • I can support most of the proposed resolution as written.

    6 21.43%
  • I can't support much of the proposed resolution as written.

    10 35.71%
  • I can't support any of the propose resolution as written.

    4 14.29%
  • This is the worst idea any nutter has come up with yet.

    2 7.14%
  • Other and I will explain in my post

    1 3.57%
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Thread: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

  1. #71
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    They would have to be charming enough to engage people; they would have to have a new unique idea or two that would appeal to almost everyone; they would have to be considered strong willed and confident enough in their own skin to be a leader; they would have to be considered trustworthy; and they would, of necessity, have to be a brilliant orator to get their ideas across.

    People are weary right now, and tired of the status quo. Does such a person exist? I think so, but we may not yet know who he is--and I say "he" because I believe it will be a he rather than a she at this time in history. There are certainly excellent women out there, but they may be better suited to another role, because we are a patriarchal society and I don't see that changing any time soon on the world stage. The days of being ruled by a Elizabeth 1 or Victoria may have passed, although they were perfect at the time, but they always had men as advisors, not other women.

    Just my opinion...
    Of course I made the concept of benevolent dictator tongue in cheek. While I am confident I could fill that role and intend no harm, the fact is many, if not most, would think I was doing great harm. The old saw that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, is too often true when it comes to government of any kind. That is why the Founders' concept of a central government that would recognize and protect our unalienable rights and then leave the people free to form whatever society they wished to have was completely new and unique. It was the first nation in the history of the world that embraced a concept of a people who would govern themselves. A nation in which no despot, monarch, feudal lord, pope, or other totalitarian government would have any authority to dictate to the people what rights they would be allowed to have and/or how they would be required to conduct their lives. The people would hold the power over their own destiny.

    We have been losing that concept, bit by bit, for a very long time now. The purpose of the OP is to restore that power to the people.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #72
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Of course I made the concept of benevolent dictator tongue in cheek. While I am confident I could fill that role and intend no harm, the fact is many, if not most, would think I was doing great harm. The old saw that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, is too often true when it comes to government of any kind. That is why the Founders' concept of a central government that would recognize and protect our unalienable rights and then leave the people free to form whatever society they wished to have was completely new and unique. It was the first nation in the history of the world that embraced a concept of a people who would govern themselves. A nation in which no despot, monarch, feudal lord, pope, or other totalitarian government would have any authority to dictate to the people what rights they would be allowed to have and/or how they would be required to conduct their lives. The people would hold the power over their own destiny.

    We have been losing that concept, bit by bit, for a very long time now. The purpose of the OP is to restore that power to the people.
    : It's long overdue!

  3. #73
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    : It's long overdue!
    Thanks, but you can see by the poll results up there so far that we are in a distinct minority. I have been away from DP for a long time, and I wonder if the concepts in the OP are simply not being taught anywhere any more? Or has DP become a mostly left leaning board in my absence, as left wingers almost certainly oppose most or all of the concepts in the OP?

    But to expound on a line from a favorite movie, "I am a lone reed, proud to stand tall in the winds of injustice and corruption." Okay that's really corny, but I hope some will understand what I am saying.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #74
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It is intended as a concept. A starting place. I do not in my wildest imagination consider myself smarter or more competent than our Founding Fathers and it took them eleven years of debate, discussion, argument of all sides of every issue, give and take, and compromise before arriving at a concept that everybody could live with. And, even though the Constitution they gave us would need amendment and adjustment here and there--issues of sexism and racism, etc. were all worked out over time--it worked very well for more than a hundred years. And it produced the most vibrant, productive, free, innovative, prosperous, and benevolent society the world had ever seen or has ever seen to this day.

    It was turned on its head, however, when Theodore Roosevelt declared that the government could do anything that the Constitution did not expressly FORBID. And he packed the courts with like minded judges who would not challenge him on that. It was a complete reversal of the concept held by all previous elected leaders that the federal government could do only what the Constitution ALLOWED. The change started a small snowball rolling that shifts more and more control and power to the federal government. That snowball has been gathering momentum, size and mass ever since until it now threatens to flatten everything the USA was intended to be.

    The resolution in the OP addresses that and is intended to restore the original basis of a people who have their rights secured and then govern themselves.
    You actually have to begin with an extremely idealistic base to even reach a compromise.

    There are 3-4 major problems that need work. Removing as much corporate influence out of Gov as possible. Campaign and term reform, reducing waste/fraud and removing excess regulations and taxes. I think if a lot of effort could be placed on these initiatives that most of the rest would work itself out. But I just don't see that happening soon. The old sayings "money makes the world go round" and "money talks" are true for a reason.

    Also we're becoming a service based economy, which doesn't pay as well or employ as many, as when we were production based. That started when the gov allowed too much free trade, which benefited international corporations, other countries and the growth formula. One of the driving concepts that's failing the world is materialistic success and wealth increase thru sales and population growth but it's simply unsustainable. No amount of efficiency will allow us to propel forward without some streamlining.

    The 2008 Recession and near financial collapse was the end of the credit fueled growth machine. With all the wealth being siphoned up to the top the rest of the people don't have enough to keep the retail end spurred. Without a source of income to continue a forward momentum the economy is going to stagflate, then reverse. Eventually the Feds trying to spend our way out of financial problems with ever increasing debt is not going to work on a global scale.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  5. #75
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Thanks, but you can see by the poll results up there so far that we are in a distinct minority. I have been away from DP for a long time, and I wonder if the concepts in the OP are simply not being taught anywhere any more? Or has DP become a mostly left leaning board in my absence, as left wingers almost certainly oppose most or all of the concepts in the OP?

    But to expound on a line from a favorite movie, "I am a lone reed, proud to stand tall in the winds of injustice and corruption." Okay that's really corny, but I hope some will understand what I am saying.
    People are just not as happy today as they used to be, but some are fearful about change and will revert back to "adapt to the devil you know." However, I believe it will change because it's inevitable with all the problems we face, but what it might take to get there is going to be a big problem for everyone! Sad...

  6. #76
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    They would have to be charming enough to engage people; they would have to have a new unique idea or two that would appeal to almost everyone; they would have to be considered strong willed and confident enough in their own skin to be a leader; they would have to be considered trustworthy; and they would, of necessity, have to be a brilliant orator to get their ideas across.

    People are weary right now, and tired of the status quo. Does such a person exist? I think so, but we may not yet know who he is--and I say "he" because I believe it will be a he rather than a she at this time in history. There are certainly excellent women out there, but they may be better suited to another role, because we are a patriarchal society and I don't see that changing any time soon on the world stage. The days of being ruled by a Elizabeth 1 or Victoria may have passed, although they were perfect at the time, but they always had men as advisors, not other women.

    Just my opinion...
    Yeah but I cannot be that person because I have other priorities. So do not insist, okay?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  7. #77
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Yeah but I cannot be that person because I have other priorities. So do not insist, okay?
    You may have to reconsider if you are asked to take on the burden! :

  8. #78
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I don't believe I referred to history other than the intent of the original Constitution and I am pretty sure I didn't engage in any fear mongering. My intent with the OP was to provide a proposed resolution for the purpose of discussion of how best to repair a federal government in serious need of repair here and now.

    So what do you think about that?



    I think that you're wasting your time, but that's OK with me.

    We already have a way to change our government-It's called elections.

    If you don't like what the people in Washington, D.C. are doing, send some other people there.

  9. #79
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You actually have to begin with an extremely idealistic base to even reach a compromise.

    There are 3-4 major problems that need work. Removing as much corporate influence out of Gov as possible. Campaign and term reform, reducing waste/fraud and removing excess regulations and taxes. I think if a lot of effort could be placed on these initiatives that most of the rest would work itself out. But I just don't see that happening soon. The old sayings "money makes the world go round" and "money talks" are true for a reason.

    Also we're becoming a service based economy, which doesn't pay as well or employ as many, as when we were production based. That started when the gov allowed too much free trade, which benefited international corporations, other countries and the growth formula. One of the driving concepts that's failing the world is materialistic success and wealth increase thru sales and population growth but it's simply unsustainable. No amount of efficiency will allow us to propel forward without some streamlining.

    The 2008 Recession and near financial collapse was the end of the credit fueled growth machine. With all the wealth being siphoned up to the top the rest of the people don't have enough to keep the retail end spurred. Without a source of income to continue a forward momentum the economy is going to stagflate, then reverse. Eventually the Feds trying to spend our way out of financial problems with ever increasing debt is not going to work on a global scale.
    The 2008 collapse happened because government, in order to increase its own power, influence, prestige, and personal wealth, encouraged people to buy houses they could not afford. Yes there were many who ethically or unethically jumped into the process to capitalize on it, but the core fatal error was that too many people bought property they could not afford. If the proposals in the OP had been in effect, that would never have happened because 1) the federal government wouldn't have been in the mortgage lending business in the first place and 2) we would have public servants in government instead of the opportunistic career politicians and bureaucrats that we now have.

    The issue of corporate power abuse, campaign finance abuse, etc. would also be largely addressed quite competently by initiating the concepts in the OP.

    IMO, the concepts in the OP address the root of the problems and stop government from creating them. Trying to put the problem back into Pandora's box simply isn't working.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #80
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    Re: PROPOSAL to Fix a Broken United States Government

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I think that you're wasting your time, but that's OK with me.

    We already have a way to change our government-It's called elections.

    If you don't like what the people in Washington, D.C. are doing, send some other people there.
    That solution became impossible once the government assumed authority it was never intended to have. The people can no longer elect true reformers to the federal government, at least in numbers large enough to make a difference. Unless we take the power and money incentives out of the process so that there is no purpose for the professional opportunists to seek those high offices, they will continue to buy those positions for their own personal gain.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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