View Poll Results: where does the main issue lie?

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24. You may not vote on this poll
  • People are irresponsible, undisciplined, lazy, and/or some other moral failing

    10 41.67%
  • People are insufficiently educated to understand complex and long term needs

    11 45.83%
  • individual long term planning is simply against human nature and will never reasonably happen

    5 20.83%
  • There are factors we do not yet understand

    0 0%
  • these may seem like a failure of programs but are for the best for society

    0 0%
  • external factors we do understand play a role but were not originally planned for

    4 16.67%
  • something else (explain)

    4 16.67%
  • burrito rootabega

    5 20.83%
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Thread: adults and responsibility

  1. #81
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They like to take other people's money.
    That has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican - or even Libertarian for that matter. Every political party/government in every country on earth for a very, very long time (and for the foreseeable future) has collected taxes.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-22-14 at 04:45 AM.
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  2. #82
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican - or even Libertarian for that matter. Every political party/government in every country on earth for a very, very long time (and for the foreseeable future) has collected taxes.
    Talk about blowing the context.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #83
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Talk about blowing the context.
    You initiated communication ...
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #84
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You initiated communication ...
    People are generally talking about over-taxation, and most people know that.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #85
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    People are generally talking about over-taxation, and most people know that.
    "Over-taxation" has no objective meaning.


    Should we compare the over-spending of Conservative Bush to the balanced budget he was handed by a liberal President?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #86
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    "Over-taxation" has no objective meaning.


    Should we compare the over-spending of Conservative Bush to the balanced budget he was handed by a liberal President?
    Sure that was a projected surplus, and there was a recession going on when Bush took office, and yes he spent too ****ing much. Every conservative I know disagreed with the increased spending across the board that went on. The govt taxes and spends too much.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #87
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Sure that was a projected surplus, and there was a recession going on when Bush took office, and yes he spent too ****ing much. Every conservative I know disagreed with the increased spending across the board that went on. The govt taxes and spends too much.
    I agree it spends too much in general. I don't agree that all of Obama's increased spending was unneeded. If you're using that little blip of a recession that Bush had as an excuse, then obviously Obama inherited a whopper - The Great Bush Recession.


    But we're stuck with the taxes, even with lower spending, until such time as the national debt is reduced to reasonable levels, which also includes the GDP catching up to it through inflation.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-22-14 at 06:06 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #88
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Good questions.

    I can't help but think the top 3 are really all one and the same though ultimately.

  9. #89
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    that might fit under insufficient education, but then again, you can lead a horse to water ...
    You mention all these carrots, 401Ks, education, etc. What sticks are we using to shape outcomes? They are essential to any such endeavor, yet it seems government is capable on these sorts of big issues only to be able to offer carrots and no sticks. Perhaps if the other horses see that the horse that wouldn't drink got whipped terribly, they'd magically start drinking. Of course, with us violence is not neither good nor likely to be effective long term...but some serious negatives reinforcement appears to be missing.

    So you don't save for retirement, government still carries you. So you don't pay back your loan, government still takes care of you. Buy too big a home and earn too little, we got that covered. Don't want to go where the jobs are but prefer your hometown, we got it.

  10. #90
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    Re: adults and responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I agree it spends too much in general. I don't agree that all of Obama's increased spending was unneeded. If you're using that little blip of a recession that Bush had as an excuse, then obviously Obama inherited a whopper - The Great Bush Recession.


    But we're stuck with the taxes, even with lower spending, until such time as the national debt is reduced to reasonable levels, which also includes the GDP catching up to it through inflation.
    I'm not making any excuses, and I resent you implying that I did. You know damn well I wasn't, I was disagreeing that there was a surplus, it was a myth put out by the Clinton Admin that was proven to be unfounded. Yet liberals run around still to this day saying there was one, showing the old graphs that Clinton put out. It was a lie, when Bush should up for work there wasn't an extra penny to be found, and there was a recession in fact Clinton complained that Bush was causing it by talking about it during his campaign. I remember distinctly Clinton claiming that Bush was causing the recession by merely talking about it. Furthermore in no way did I say that the lack of a surplus made it okay for Bush to spend lots of money like Obama did. I disagree with Bush then, and I still do today.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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