View Poll Results: Would we even be discussing the NRA...

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Thread: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

  1. #11
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    This is precisely my thought, as well. Yet, there are people I know both here at DP and elsewhere that choose to take the President at his word when he says he welcomes the discussion.
    I've become very cynical about political figures lately - IMO, if they say something, the opposite is most likely true.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  2. #12
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Would we even be discussing the NSA, and internal/international data collection & spying, if Edward Snowden had never done what he did?

    President Obama likes to talk about the need for a public discourse, and how this is healthy, as if it were necessary and on his agenda already, and so on, but would he be saying that if not backed into a corner to do so?

    Without Snowden releasing that info we would still be in the dark about it,Obama wouldn't have said **** and anyone who believed that the government was spying on them would be seen as a tin foil hat wearer(regardless of all the ****ed up **** our government has done in the past).


    The treasonous politicians are already trying to start their smear campaign against Snowden.

    Lawmakers: Russia may have aided Snowden
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #13
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    While we're at it, let's look at the larger picture. The NSA is tracking terabytes of data, analyzing it, and storing it. That's just computer data related to email, etc. They would also be tracking, analyzing and collating all financial movements and stock transactions and metals sales worldwide and using that info to control trends. There is no question that they can keep track of every dollar, euro, franc, etc. because they are far fewer in number than telecom data. You only need write an app (application software) to print out or view the analysis. This is the info government needs to control those "free markets." We're not discussing conspiracy theory, but real time events. The link will reveal the players that make it all possible. Although the US Treasury's PPT (Plunge Protection Team) is not mentioned, a little googling will elucidate one regarding same. Now you may understand why Treasury, Fed, Goldman, JPMorgan Chase ex-execs are in a revolving door relationship. This all made possible by NSA data collection at all levels, not just telecom.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle37413.htm

    "This manipulation by the Fed involves the short-selling of uncovered Comex gold futures. “Uncovered” means that these are contracts that are sold without any underlying physical gold to deliver if the buyer on the other side decides to ask for delivery. This is also known as “naked short selling.” The execution of the manipulative trading is conducted through one of the major gold futures trading banks, such as JPMorganChase, HSBC, and Bank of Nova Scotia. These banks do the actual selling on behalf of the Fed. The manner in which the Fed dumps a large quantity of futures contracts into the market differs from the way in which a bona fide trader looking to sell a big position would operate. The latter would try to work off his position carefully over an extended period of time with the goal of trying to disguise his selling and to disturb the price as little as possible in order to maximize profits or minimize losses. In contrast, the Fed‘s sales telegraph the intent to drive the price lower with no regard for preserving profits or fear or incurring losses, because the goal is to inflict as much damage as possible on the price and intimidate potential buyers.

    The Fed also actively manipulates gold via the Globex system. The Globex market is punctuated with periods of “quiet” time in which the trade volume is very low. It is during these periods that the Fed has its agent banks bombard the market with massive quantities of gold futures over a very brief period of time for the purpose of driving the price lower. The banks know that there are very few buyers around during these time periods to absorb the selling. This drives the price lower than if the selling operation occurred when the market is more active"

    "The purpose of driving the price of gold down was to prevent the announced reduction in bond purchases (the so-called tapering) from sending the dollar, stock and bond markets down. The markets understand that the liquidity that Quantitative Easing provides is the reason for the high bond and stock prices and understand also that the gains from the rising stock market discourage gold purchases. Previously when the Fed had mentioned that it might reduce bond purchases, the stock market fell and bonds sold off. To neutralize the market scare, the Fed manipulated both gold and stock markets. (See Pam Martens for explanation of the manipulation of the stock market: Why Didn )

    While the manipulation of the gold market has been occurring since the start of the bull market in gold in late 2000, this pattern of rampant manipulative short-selling of futures contracts has been occurring on a more intense basis over the last 2 years, during gold's price decline from a high of $1900 in September 2011. The attack on gold’s price typically will occur during one of several key points in time during the 23 hour Globex trading period. The most common is right at the open of Comex gold futures trading, which is 8:20 a.m. New York time. To set the tone of trading, the price of gold is usually knocked down when the Comex opens. Here are the other most common times when gold futures are sold during illiquid Globex system time periods:"

  4. #14
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I've become very cynical about political figures lately - IMO, if they say something, the opposite is most likely true.
    They aren't lying all of the time.
    Only when their lips are moving.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  5. #15
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They aren't lying all of the time.
    Only when their lips are moving.
    But they are lying to us. We are the taxpayers. We are the voters. How do we stop this Plutocracy?

  6. #16
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    But they are lying to us. We are the taxpayers. We are the voters. How do we stop this Plutocracy?
    The plutocracy has power because a candidate needs piles of campaign cash to get elected. Those piles of cash are used to buy air time to play commercials that are misleading, that use half truths and outright lies to influence voters, and that do absolutely nothing to inform anyone of any real issues.

    Therefore, the best thing that the voters can do is to record all the TV they watch, and then fast forward through the commercials and never see them, or, even better, count up the number of commercials aired, and vote for the candidate with the fewest. That will be the candidate who took the least special interest money and has the fewest wealthy donors to pay back.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  7. #17
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Good news! The NSA has new rules in place now! We're all safe at last.

    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  8. #18
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The plutocracy has power because a candidate needs piles of campaign cash to get elected. Those piles of cash are used to buy air time to play commercials that are misleading, that use half truths and outright lies to influence voters, and that do absolutely nothing to inform anyone of any real issues.

    Therefore, the best thing that the voters can do is to record all the TV they watch, and then fast forward through the commercials and never see them, or, even better, count up the number of commercials aired, and vote for the candidate with the fewest. That will be the candidate who took the least special interest money and has the fewest wealthy donors to pay back.
    I disconnected from network TV in 1990. I've been voting Green Party nearly 100% since that time.

  9. #19
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Over the last number of years, but more so during the Obama administration, I have come to have grave doubts that this country will survive in any shape or form even resembling what the founders set out to do. Law enforcement at any level cannot profile someone who fits the profile of a terrorist or a criminal because we might offend someone who fits the profile of a terrorist or a criminal. Eric Snowden is a national hero. I would hate for my son to be in his predicament. But he followed his conscience. As a law abiding citizen who is not a terrorist should anything Snowden reported concern me? Really? I'm guilty of nothing. So, I talk to the grandbaby a couple times a week on my cell phone. So what if Uncle knows? So what? It's none of his d**m business. I was born and raised in this country. Family members have served honorably in the service of this country as far back as the American Revolution. We have won the rights we have here. Just because I am not doing anything criminal does not mean that the government should have the right to violate my privacy. Under no other circumstance can you get someone's phone records unless they are evidence in a legal case. But the government can get the phone records of ordinary American citizens who have never done anything criminal.

    It is bad enough that I can't get on a place without getting groped and fondled because my joint replacements trigger the alarm. And that while those who fit the profile of terrorists bop right onto the plane unmolested.

    I objected to the Patriot Act when it was enacted. I felt it would lead us into a new age of McCarthyism. Oh would that that is ALL it has done. We are ALL in a line up. Every last one of us.

    Where is the America of my young adulthood?
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  10. #20
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    Re: Would we even be discussing the NSA...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Would we even be discussing the NSA, and internal/international data collection & spying, if Edward Snowden had never done what he did?

    President Obama likes to talk about the need for a public discourse, and how this is healthy, as if it were necessary and on his agenda already, and so on, but would he be saying that if not backed into a corner to do so?
    From what I've read/heard, President Obama claimed he didn't know the extent of the "spying". If true, it's pretty hard to have a public discourse when even the President is in the dark.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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