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Spousal Rape - Crime of Rape, or Not ?????

Can a man be criminally/legally charged with raping his wife?

  • Yes. Absolutely.

    Votes: 57 71.3%

  • No. Definitely not.

    Votes: 4 5.0%

  • Case-by-case basis. Not that black & white.

    Votes: 17 21.3%

  • Other- please explain

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Total voters
    80
roguenuke said:
Please tell me what is normally required to get a person convicted of rape when the victim is not their spouse.
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I have no idea. I'm not a criminal defense attorney, prosecutor nor have I served on a rape case jury. If serving on a jury I would need to be convinced of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, and I THINK it would be somewhat more difficult to prove with the standing consent agreement known as marriage that a case where there defendant was a stranger, casual acquaintance, etc. of the victim.

It is just as likely that a non-spouse will make a false accusation of rape as it is a spouse. And there is already the problem of a jury who is going to be more biased against a spouse who claims rape (particularly when it comes to a single accusation and if their is no evidence of physical abuse) then a non-spouse. No one should be convicted of rape, spouse or non-spouse based on a single claim, basically anything that would come down to a he said/she said situation alone. But that doesn't mean that there should be any stipulations in the laws to treat a married person differently than a non-married person when it comes to rape because each situation should be based on the evidence for that situation and whether it shows that the accused raped the person or not.
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Reasonable.

Their marital status should not affect that determination anymore than their relationship status should.
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I think people who are married may bake assumptions those who are not married don't get to do. They could include making advances toward each other while the other might be asleep, initiating intimate relations while the other or both are intoxicated, surprising them while showering, etc., etc., etc. Marriage is IMHO a very important consideration considering the casual sexuality, on the first date, one night stand culture some segments of society have embraced often birthed in environments where intoxication is occurring. That's not to say rape is ever okay in any circumstance, only that I imagine it might be more difficult to prove if a standing understanding of exclusive consent exists, all other things being equal.
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Smeagol said:
roguenuke said:
I have no idea. I'm not a criminal defense attorney, prosecutor nor have I served on a rape case jury. If serving on a jury I would need to be convinced of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, and I THINK it would be somewhat more difficult to prove with the standing consent agreement known as marriage that a case where there defendant was a stranger, casual acquaintance, etc. of the victim.



Reasonable.



I think people who are married may bake assumptions those who are not married don't get to do. They could include making advances toward each other while the other might be asleep, initiating intimate relations while the other or both are intoxicated, surprising them while showering, etc., etc., etc. Marriage is IMHO a very important consideration considering the casual sexuality, on the first date, one night stand culture some segments of society have embraced often birthed in environments where intoxication is occurring. That's not to say rape is ever okay in any circumstance, only that I imagine it might be more difficult to prove if a standing understanding of exclusive consent exists, all other things being equal.
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I think the problem is that people make assumptions about other people's marriages that they shouldn't make. Marriage is not a standing consent agreement. Marriage is an agreement to make each other spouses. Sex is a completely different agreement between people that has nothing to do with marriage.

I've had plenty of guys I dated or just stayed the night with who initiated intimacy with me after I was positioned to sleep. Some succeeded, others failed, just as both situations have happened for my husband. There is no reason why a signed marriage contract should change whether or not I wanted to have sex with that person, husband or not. And that contract should not change how the law views consent either. And the juries need to be reminded of that during any trial. Climbing into bed with someone, even night after night, and having past sexual relations with that person or being in a marriage with that person is not automatic consent to sex, nor should anyone view it as such.

Now, obviously there are times when there is intoxication, which makes it more difficult to determine if there was consent or who gave what consent, but again this shouldn't be affected by the presence of a legal marriage between the two people or whether they were in bed together. My husband's first chance to get into my pants when we first started dating was a night I was drunk, in a hotel room bed, and being playfully seductive. He passed, and allowed me to simply sleep. I personally wouldn't have cared either way but he cared enough for me to not take advantage of that situation. Why should that change with a marriage certificate?

The problem really isn't that rape is more difficult to prove from a facts standpoint (most instances of rape are difficult to prove), but rather that too many people hold that preconceived misconception that marriage somehow acts as a form of consent itself to sex. That is what should be worked on, not preventing marital rape from being charged as rape. It doesn't take a lot to understand that rape is almost always hard to prove, but it takes that wrong belief that marriage is an automatic consent itself to believe that rape within a marriage should be treated differently than rape outside a marriage.
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Graffias said:
It will end it. If she moves out and severs all ties with him, there will be no opportunity for him to rape her. Unless he's stalking her, of course, then she can report it to the police and get a restraining order. It's the same with domestic violence. The surest way to end it is to simply leave.
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So to you marriage results in someone not having the same rights and legal recourse as everyone else.

Family, dating partner, significant other not otherwise married, fiance, neighbor - all of these people are outside of your approved 'legal protections' circle that you have established. But a spouse, no, they don't have to answer to the letter of the law if they want to violate you.

The woman has been reduced as a human being. A dog has more rights than her.

*sarcastic clap* - Excellent plan.
 
GottaGo said:
With rape there will usually be vaginal abrasion and/or tearing, possibly bruising, scratches, and the state of mind of the rape victim.
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Abrasions, bruises, and tearing sometimes happen during normal intercourse, such as during rough sex. These cannot be taken as proof beyond the shadow of a doubt that a rape occurred. The state of mind of the alleged victim is not proof either, as many false rape accusers are good at feigning injury or distress. Feminists make a big deal about rape being an underreported crime and that it's difficult for rape victims to be believed by the police and courts, when in fact it's incredibly easy to level such accusations and be believed. Type "false rape accusers" into any search engine, and you will see what I mean.
 
Jerry said:
So how do you prove spousal rape?
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If the wife is smart she voice records it. This happened several yrs ago where a lady's husband(they were going thru a separation) kept raping her. She went to the cops and b/c she didn't have evidence, nothing was done about it, so the next time she taped it. Guess they believed her then, and he was convicted!
 
herenow1 said:
If the wife is smart she voice records it. This happened several yrs ago where a lady's husband(they were going thru a separation) kept raping her. She went to the cops and b/c she didn't have evidence, nothing was done about it, so the next time she taped it. Guess they believed her then, and he was convicted!
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Getting raped by your husband? There's an app for that: Voice Recorder - Android
 
ChrisL said:
I suspect that a lot of those women never really liked sex and just pretended that they liked it. I don't see how you can go from liking it to not liking it just because you got married.
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Thanks to the lack of comprehensive sexual knowledge in our culture, a lot of men have terrible technique and don't know it, some don't care about the woman's pleasure out of ignorance (the misconception that good women don't like sex) or arrogance, and some men and women let their anger over other marital issues spill over into their sex lives and ruin it. Some women never learned how to enjoy sex and/or are too fearful to ask for what they want, and fake it until they get settled into their marriage.

However, I don't think that lack of a good sex life causes rape. Rape is usually about asserting dominance and control and/or expressing anger and hate, not so much about obtaining sexual relief.
 
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Hard Truth said:
Thanks to the lack of comprehensive sexual knowledge in our culture, a lot of men have terrible technique and don't know it, some don't care about the woman's pleasure out of ignorance (the misconception that good women don't like sex) or arrogance, and some men and women let their anger over other marital issues spill over into their sex lives and ruin it. Some women never learned how to enjoy sex and/or are too fearful to ask for what they want, and fake it until they get settled into their marriage.

However, I don't think that lack of a good sex life causes rape. Rape is usually about asserting dominance and control and/or expressing anger and hate, not so much about obtaining sexual relief.
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Oh no, I wasn't say that was an excuse for rape. I was answering lizzie's post about men telling her that their wives' are "cold."
 
I didn't think you were making excuses.....I'm just spreading the knowledge.
 
ChrisL said:
Oh no, I wasn't say that was an excuse for rape. I was answering lizzie's post about men telling her that their wives' are "cold."
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I don't think that the women pretended to like sex and then stopped once married, I think life happens. Before kids, marriage and responsibility, a couple can have sex 7 days a week.. Sometimes twice a day. Not so much when the kids come along, the everyday stresses of life etc.
 
herenow1 said:
I don't think that the women pretended to like sex and then stopped once married, I think life happens. Before kids, marriage and responsibility, a couple can have sex 7 days a week.. Sometimes twice a day. Not so much when the kids come along, the everyday stresses of life etc.
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That's a good point. Lizzie is only get half of the story.
 
sangha said:
Another brand of stupidity is thinking that only spouses are afraid to resist a rape
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Another brand of stupid misunderstanding. Who told you, that "only spouses are afraid to resist a rape"? Learn to understand what you read.
 
herenow1 said:
I don't think that the women pretended to like sex and then stopped once married, I think life happens. Before kids, marriage and responsibility, a couple can have sex 7 days a week.. Sometimes twice a day. Not so much when the kids come along, the everyday stresses of life etc.
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Good point. What's why we have to have a few wives.:kitty:
 
I'd make a couple of comments here:

1. I strongly believe in self-determination, self-fulfillment and nobody has the right, piece of paper or not, to make you do something you have no desire to do.

2. Sex is an integral part of any strong marriage, so if you don't want to have sex with your spouse to the extent that he/she may feel a need to force it, you should reconsider whether or not you are truly interested in or committed to the marriage you're in.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I'd make a couple of comments here:



2. Sex is an integral part of any strong marriage, so if you don't want to have sex with your spouse to the extent that he/she may feel a need to force it, you should reconsider whether or not you are truly interested in or committed to the marriage you're in.
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What, males do not want to have a sex?:shock:
 
loader said:
What, males do not want to have a sex?:shock:
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I know one. His wife actually complains a lot about her lack of sex due to his not wanting it. It has been years, possibly even a decade.

Found out it was almost 2 decades. Apparently he quit wanting anything right after their youngest was born and got the desire back around the time the youngest graduated high school.
 
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roguenuke said:
I know one. His wife actually complains a lot about her lack of sex due to his not wanting it. It has been years, possibly even a decade.
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I wonder how many men say that but who actually have a "problem" with function and are just embarrassed to let their wives know. Ohhh, that's so sad. :(
 
ChrisL said:
I wonder how many men say that but who actually have a "problem" with function and are just embarrassed to let their wives know. Ohhh, that's so sad. :(
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If it was function it seemed to have fixed itself. It could have been psychological. Who knows? I figure there could be several reasons men wouldn't want to have sex.

I had a roommate who we (me and my other 2 roommates, along with anyone who spent any time at our apartment) suspected was asexual, until the third apartment I shared with him, I found out he just liked really large women (height and weight). He simply wasn't attracted to any small women. Some guys have really specific attractions (just like some women) and their sex needs are "okay" with that.
 
I just hope that nobody is still trying to argue that rape is legal since they signed a marriage contract... :roll:
 
roguenuke said:
If it was function it seemed to have fixed itself. It could have been psychological. Who knows? I figure there could be several reasons men wouldn't want to have sex.

I had a roommate who we (me and my other 2 roommates, along with anyone who spent any time at our apartment) suspected was asexual, until the third apartment I shared with him, I found out he just liked really large women (height and weight). He simply wasn't attracted to any small women. Some guys have really specific attractions (just like some women) and their sex needs are "okay" with that.
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I hate saying it, but maybe they aren't attracted to their wives anymore? Sadly, that happens sometimes.
 
CanadaJohn said:
While not often publically noted, there are situations where the wife is the aggressor.
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And depending on her integrity, she may be accusing her man of that because she is after something else entirely. I know someone that was going through a divorce and his wife accused him of molesting one of their daughters because the divorce was not going her way. When it was all said and done and thousands of dollars later he was proven innocent but his life as business owner was ruined. She claimed her daughter told her it happened and never was punished, I thought they should have hung that witch.
 
ChrisL said:
I hate saying it, but maybe they aren't attracted to their wives anymore? Sadly, that happens sometimes.
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and the reason may not be physical
 
Rocketman said:
and the reason may not be physical
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I suppose sometimes people just don't love each other anymore . . . or even like each other in some cases. :lol:
 
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