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Spousal Rape - Crime of Rape, or Not ?????

Can a man be criminally/legally charged with raping his wife?

  • Yes. Absolutely.

    Votes: 57 71.3%
  • No. Definitely not.

    Votes: 4 5.0%
  • Case-by-case basis. Not that black & white.

    Votes: 17 21.3%
  • Other- please explain

    Votes: 2 2.5%

  • Total voters
    80
Lack of sex is grounds for divorce, but that creates no obligation whatsoever.
If it's grounds for divorce, then there's an obligation, regardless of what it is. Adultery is grounds for divorce, therefore there's an obligation to be monogamous.
 
There is absolutely no law in this country that obligates one spouse to have sex with the other. Lack of sex is grounds for divorce, but that creates no obligation whatsoever. What century do you live in?

I didn't say there was, I said there was a legal obligation in the marriage contract. What century do YOU live in where you cannot understand the difference between civil and criminal law.
 
I am trying to play devils advocate and find an instance where it would not be rape... but I can't.
 
Yahoo!



So there it is.

Man and woman are married.

Can a man rape his wife? Can he be charged with the crime of rape? Sentenced and sent to jail?
That kind of rape.

Is there such a thing as spousal rape?

Does no mean no in a marriage?

Or is DICK Black's view reasonable and valid?

What's with this:
Marital rape has been illegal in all 50 states and the District of Columbia since 1993.
- Are you kidding me? Only since 1993?

The crime remains a serious issue (a third of all domestic violence cases involve spousal rape), but often goes unpunished because, like all rape cases, it can be difficult to prove. “When there’s not a third party witness or no external reference it becomes his word against hers,” said RAINN president and founder Scott Berkowitz. “So it’s sometimes very challenging for prosecutors to win a conviction.”

Yes - unfortunate truth but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued.
 
When sex is part of legal marital duty that means to get to spousal rape at least one of the spouses has already violated the contract, yes? Want to have sex only when YOU want to, don't get married.

That said, if force is applied, again there are other charges available without the need for the whole rape question.

What marraige contract did you sign because mine says nothing about having sex... period. Care to provide a link?
 
I voted "yes" but I don't think rape should be the charge. I think it's closer to a serious assault charge.

That is where I was going too... unless it is a true rape wtih her actively resisting, or soemthing.
 
Divorce for Withholding Affection | LegalZoom: Legal Info

Withholding Affection is the same as abandonment and is legal cause for an at fault divorce.

I didn't ask for reasons for divorce. There are many... I asked where in the marriage contract does it state that you have to have sex with your spouse. That is the first step. If you can't show that then you can't make any valid claim that raping your spouse is not illegal.

...and your link doesn't even talk about withholding affection. It talks about "No Fault Divorce" meaning that you don't even need a reason to get a divorce anymore.
 
What marraige contract did you sign because mine says nothing about having sex... period. Care to provide a link?
All contracts are subject to civil and tort law even if they don't list said laws in the contract itself.
 
Divorce for Withholding Affection | LegalZoom: Legal Info

Withholding Affection is the same as abandonment and is legal cause for an at fault divorce.

Withholding Affection is NOT the same as withholding sex. Sex is not the same as giving affection.

Withholding Affection = lack of interest in things that are important to you, lack of concern for your well-being, being divisive against your friends and freedoms in life, etc. The fundamental elements needed to have a well rounded relationship on an emotional level with the intent of being hurtful.

You can have sex and still be in a relationship where Affection is being withheld. Often, women who are in an emotionally abusive relationship DO have sex - and in that type of environment it's considered to be transactional, not affectionate.

Please understand that.
 
I asked where in the marriage contract does it state that you have to have sex with your spouse.
Where in the marriage contract did it say you weren't allowed to rape your wife?
 
Withholding Affection is NOT the same as withholding sex. Sex is not the same as giving affection.

Withholding Affection = lack of interest in things that are important to you, lack of concern for your well-being, being divisive against your friends and freedoms in life, etc. The fundamental elements needed to have a well rounded relationship on an emotional level with the intent of being hurtful.

You can have sex and still be in a relationship where Affection is being withheld. Often, women who are in an emotionally abusive relationship DO have sex - and in that type of environment it's considered to be transactional, not affectionate.

Please understand that.
If your Love Language is physical touch, then yes withholding sex is withholding affection.

But that's not the important thing. Alienation of Affection is a charge you bring against a 3rd party, not your spouse.
 
All contracts are subject to civil and tort law even if they don't list said laws in the contract itself.

And how does that imply that sex is mandatory and that if sex is not given consensually it can be taken by force, exactly?

Where in the marriage contract did it say you weren't allowed to rape your wife?

It doesn't need to any more than it doesn't say anywhere in the marriage contract did it say you weren't allowed to murder your wife.

Now, why is that Jerry?
 
Withholding Affection is NOT the same as withholding sex. Sex is not the same as giving affection.

Withholding Affection = lack of interest in things that are important to you, lack of concern for your well-being, being divisive against your friends and freedoms in life, etc. The fundamental elements needed to have a well rounded relationship on an emotional level with the intent of being hurtful.

You can have sex and still be in a relationship where Affection is being withheld. Often, women who are in an emotionally abusive relationship DO have sex - and in that type of environment it's considered to be transactional, not affectionate.

Please understand that.

The end of my marriage was 100% withholding affection... but we still had sex.
 
I didn't ask for reasons for divorce. There are many... I asked where in the marriage contract does it state that you have to have sex with your spouse. That is the first step. If you can't show that then you can't make any valid claim that raping your spouse is not illegal.

...and your link doesn't even talk about withholding affection. It talks about "No Fault Divorce" meaning that you don't even need a reason to get a divorce anymore.

I understand the question, you failed to understand the answer. There is no marriage contract you sign, what you sign is a license. One of the obligations of that license are that you comply with state law on the matter of marriage. While all states now allow No Fault divorces many do still have At Fault divorces to address when a spouse violates the terms set in law of said license.

Further you show you don't read very well (from the link):

Assigning Blame
Sometimes, a spouse will choose to pursue a "fault" divorce to expose egregious conduct or to influence child custody or support issues. Traditional fault grounds for divorce include abandonment -- and withholding affection can be argued to constitute abandonment. It might be wise, however, to obtain legal advice before filing a divorce on these charges.
 
And how does that imply that sex is mandatory and that if sex is not given consensually it can be taken by force, exactly?
No one said it could be taken by force. We said it was an obligation to give freely, and if not given freely, that's grounds for divorce.

It doesn't need to any more than it doesn't say anywhere in the marriage contract did it say you weren't allowed to murder your wife.

Now, why is that Jerry?
I actually pulled out my old marriage certificate, and it doesn't actually list any applicable laws at all. It lists our vital information and a statement that we're married. Does your marriage certificate actually list all applicable laws? What happens when a law is changed, do you have to get a new updated certificate?

Pulling out my driver's license (a civil contract with the state to drive) and it doesn't list applicable laws, either. Does your drivers license list all applicable laws?

Hey what about my Concealed Carry Permits from a few states......nope, those don't list applicable laws either. Does your weapons license list applicable laws?
 
I understand the question, you failed to understand the answer. There is no marriage contract you sign, what you sign is a license. One of the obligations of that license are that you comply with state law on the matter of marriage. While all states now allow No Fault divorces many do still have At Fault divorces to address when a spouse violates the terms set in law of said license.

Further you show you don't read very well (from the link):

You are dancing... rape is illegal. Show where being in a marriage allows rape to be legal.
 
No one said it could be taken by force. We said it was an obligation to give freely, and if not given freely, that's grounds for divorce.

I have no problem with that...
 
I have no problem with that...
You seem to think that a contract has to list all applicable laws in order for those laws to apply. If you look at either the license or the application, one or both will just have a statement of understanding that it's your responsibility to know and comply with the law, and that you agree to do so as a condition of the license.

So when you ask something stupid like "where in the contract does it say X"...well the contract itself probably doesn't say "X". It's understood that the contract complies with the law and it's up to you to know the law and know if "X" is allowed or not.
 
No one said it could be taken by force. We said it was an obligation to give freely, and if not given freely, that's grounds for divorce.

Obligated to give freely?
How in the hell is something given freely if it's an obligation?

A couple sets up their expectations for a marriage before they marry (or they should) - a violation of their 'marital vows' or what have you is established when they marry and set forward their own expectations, needs, and wants.

It's different for everyone.

We've discussed this before.
 
You seem to think that a contract has to list all applicable laws in order for those laws to apply. If you look at either the license or the application, one or both will just have a statement of understanding that it's your responsibility to know and comply with the law, and that you agree to do so as a condition of the license.

So when you ask something stupid like "where in the contract does it say X"...well the contract itself probably doesn't say anything. It's understood that the contract complies with the law and it's up to you to know the law.

I was asking for a different reason... thus making the question decidedly, "not stupid". As to the rest? I agreed with you. Talk about stupid.
 
You are dancing... rape is illegal. Show where being in a marriage allows rape to be legal.

Once again there is a legal obligation to have sex with your spouse. The license can be withdrawn if you don't and you would be at fault. It's part of deal, don't like it, don't get married. Now, does this mean you can't rape your spouse? That's still a debatable legal point and in effect the law is all over the map and unevenly applied because it's a rock and/or hard place question.

However, assault is clearly illegal and carries the same potential for penalty without the rape question even being necessary.
 
Obligated to give freely?
How in the hell is something given freely if it's an obligation?
At-will marriage, similar to at-will employment. While doing the job, you have duties and obligations, but you can quit any time you like. If you don't want to have sex with your spouse, then imo you should leave the marriage.

A couple sets up their expectations for a marriage before they marry (or they should) - a violation of their 'marital vows' or what have you is established when they marry and set forward their own expectations, needs, and wants.

It's different for everyone.
These laws are for when the couple does not agree. Remember we're talking about spousal rape, meaning one party wants sex and the other party does not. If you marry under the auspice that you would give yourselves to each-other, and then one person changes their mind, the law allows this to be grounds to terminate the marriage.
 
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What marraige contract did you sign because mine says nothing about having sex... period. Care to provide a link?

The only people I know who have a signed marriage contract is my wife and I. It is long and sex is one of the topics. There are people who sign pre-marriage contracts called "pre-nuptial agreements" generally only concerning economic matters.

We did our own marriage vows, which were unusual. Mine was all but exclusively about sex and her's much longer on the topic. Some jaws probably fell at the church. However, I could be argued that the stated contract of "to have and to hold" for as long as we both shall live" or "forevermore" could constitute consent. With saying "no" then break that marriage contract?
 
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