View Poll Results: Multiculturalism or Melting pot?

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  • Multiculturalism

    8 18.60%
  • Melting pot

    27 62.79%
  • I can't make up my mind

    1 2.33%
  • Other

    7 16.28%
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Thread: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

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    Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    The melting pot is a metaphor for a heterogeneous society becoming more homogeneous, the different elements "melting together" into a harmonious whole with a common culture. It is particularly used to describe the assimilation of immigrants to the United States; the melting-together metaphor was in use by the 1780s.
    After 1970 the desirability of assimilation and the melting pot model was challenged by proponents of multiculturalism who assert that cultural differences within society are valuable and should be preserved, proposing the alternative metaphor of the mosaic, salad bowl, or "American Kaleidoscope"—different cultures mix, but remain distinct.

    Source: Wikipedia
    Please, choose sides.

    I for one who wants different cultures but I also think they should stay apart, not mix together in a Tower of Babylon. For example, If one wants to imigrate to a country, one should adopt the culture, not try to impose his/hers on the locals. What do you think?

    Last edited by Canell; 01-17-14 at 05:13 AM.

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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    I don't think the way people see multiculturalism today is correct. I think multiculturalism today is basically the same as a melting pot, which also doesn't work or rather, if it does work, it comes with massive social disadvantages and social strife as different people, in an effort to gain some identity as a group, maximize superficial differences versus substance differences, so superficial differences become "oh so important" while the real kind of differences, substance differences, become irrelevant or undesirable all together.

    To give an example of what I want to say. If you as a multiculti moron today, what is more diverse? A group of 5 people that are all of different races or a group of 5 people that are all the same race, he'll say: the group that is of different races ; because that is in his mind, the diverse one, and that is superficial differences. the correct way to go about it is to ask "well what do each of those people do in each group and what do they believe in?" And then I can say: Well in the one of different races, they're all 5 people of different races but are all web designers with the same training and aptitude, atheists and socialists (let's say) but in the other group of one race, each of them is a doctor who is a christian and a liberal, the other is a mechanical engineer who is an environmentalist, the other is a psychologist who is an atheist, the other is a electronical engineer etc. You get the point, people of different backgrounds, truthfully unique in all their opinions and knowledge who can complement one another and have some interesting dicussions. Those would be the group I would rather be friends with or go out with a beer with. ofc, this is an analogy, a metaphor for what I am trying to say.

    So the first group is a multiculti dream because multiculti people are idiots, the 2nd group is the correct form of multiculturalism in the sense, that diversity is good but the correct kind of diversity. You want to have diversity with substance behind it, not just for show, not just for flash. When you do that, you get the wrong kind of multiculturalism, what I call multi-culti because it seems like a fanatical cult that worships multitude for the sake of multitude. And you get tensions and you get social strife and radicalism on all sides because that's just what you get.

    Now John Cleese isn't someone I care about when he isn't doing comedy or bashing americans for their silly belief that american football is actually football... so that's why my comment is not related to his comment. It's just my opinion on the whole thing about multiculturalism. You find multiculturalism everywhere in the world, the world is truely a multicultural place but you don't experience another culture by importing people who contribute nothing to their culture en mass. People who do gap the cultural bridge and enhance both societies by doing so are people who have an affinity for their own culture. So great chefs, artists, poets, writers, comedians, all the people who have an affinity to their own society where they were born and raised in, and can attune to the new one they moved to and bring some of their talent and put it to good use.

    In other words, if you want to eat indian cuisine, you don't import 1000 indians from India, you bring just 1 who can cook good indian food and have him open a restaurant. Ofc, I don't know why you would want to kill your toilet on a regular basis but w/e, to each his own.
    Same with chinesse food, not fast food chinesse food, the other kind. Import a few people who know how to cook it properly and they'll be successful and bridge the gap between nations and people. And more so, if you want to experience the whole chinesse culture, don't import 1.000.000 chinesse, go to China and experience the real thing, the whole package and take in as much as you can, then come home, and tell your friends how fascinating it is. And as more and more people go to China and experience Chinesse society and all that, and as Chinesse grow more familiar with your people, a relationship of trust and friendship and mutual benefit is formed and when people of some artistic talent travel, they bring back to their society more than you and I can. Tourism, traveling... these are the real and only ways in which culture grows and enhances and in which people understand one another better and form better ties and things grow. Not mass immigration of the plebes.


    Now ofc, those are exotic examples. Europe is blessed with dozens of unique and varied and intersting societies and cultures and for centuries it has been under the correct way of multiculturalism. That's why you had artistic currents flow through all of Europe, bringing unique expressions of themselves in each nation. The Baroque is different in Italy than it is in Spain or in England. The Romanticism current has brought many literary and poetic geniouses to bring to life countless works of art that defined and enriched each nation and people... etc.

    A lot to say...

    tl;dr: multiculturalism as it is practiced today is BS, it's not multiculturalism and it's mostly bad, it's multiculti nightmare. Multiculturalism, the real thing, has always existed and is an organic process and it doesn't destroy or shallows a society, but enriches it. Cornershop culture (bunch of people isolating themselves to turn their neighborhood/street into a ghetto) is detrimental and only serves to create social disharmony and tensions and needs to stop.

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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    I am for multiculturalism but the parent culture has more dominance in terms of law and order, constitution, military, etc. By dominance I mean the values of the parent culture should prevail at the cost of the values immigrant culture.

    Not entirely assimilation for they get to keep their culture. It just is not supported from the majority of the parent culture related to key government pillars.
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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    My parents were immigrants. I believe in the melting pot, they integrated very nicely into the American culture and did not lose their identity. They also didn't expect everyone around them to pay any special respect to their cultural heritage.
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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    The question is slightly silly one, imho. These are not two alternative options. A nation or community doesn't take a vote on whether to be one or the other. I see multiculturalism and assimilation as stages in the development of a society. Migrants on arrival in a new home tend to hang on to their own culture, especially if they feel themselves to be vulnerable, and possibly even more so if they moved because they were forcibly displaced. That seems normal from an anthropological point of view. Often cultural practices are one of the very few things migrants are able to bring with them.

    With time the migrant community and the host community will interact and both will find their cultures being influenced one by the other, and changing as a result. During the early stages of interaction the country or region where the interaction takes place will be, to a greater or lesser extent, multicultural and it behoves both hosts and arrivals to work for peaceful and cordial co-existence. As time progresses, the society that is built will naturally become an amalgam of the aspects of the cultures that have interacted. It will naturally, no great political force or effort needed, become a melting pot. Assimilation will occur, after all you cannot force people to assimilate; examples of places where this has been tried proves the impossibility of it.

    The problem that lies in this kind of discussion is that people will always want their own culture, the one that they grew up with and with which they are familiar, to dominate and see alterations in it, as caused by the effects of newer arrivals, as something negative. Sometimes they might be negative, and sometimes the process of adaptation and assimilation will be less than peaceful, certainly rarely without problems. Recognising the inevitability of social change would be a good first step towards a society coming to terms with and peacefully co-existing in a time of rapid evolution and when migration and mobility are at an all-time high.

    No doubt there are those who would prefer that all peoples remain where they are born, that migration never happened, but it always has and it always will.
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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    These are not two alternative options.
    OK, AB, let's talk African Americans. Once upon a time, before they ancestors were taken to America, they didn't know a single word in English and spoke their native African languages. Today their mother tongue is English and virtually all those African languages are forgotten. They have blended into American culture, if we presume that language and religion are primer identities.
    Let's talk Turks in Germany now, more than 2 million, if I recall correctly. They have been there for what, 50+ years? Have they blended? Generally speaking, no. They keep their mother tongue and probably will continue to do so. They keep their religion. I'm talking people who are born and grew up there in Germany.
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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    It is the same thing just different phases of immigration. Multiculturalism happens at the start and overtime (70+ years) it becomes a melting pot. Look at the US. When the Irish and Italians came they were not very welcome and actually hated, and multiculturalism happened. You had Irish and Italian cultures in various ghettos around the US, surrounded by the local culture. Fast forward 100 years and the Irish and Italian cultures have melted into the over all US culture and become part of it.. aka a melting pot.
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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    Multiculturalism has a great many meanings, everything from a sort of relativistic angle to a newer form of cultural pluralism. Despite the necessity for some of multiculturalism's viewpoints, I am mostly in agreement with the notion of the melting pot. The problem is that there is a large degree of exaggeration as to the extent America was a melting pot. The public emphasis was toward "the new race" but that did not necessarily mean ethnicities actually followed it.
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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    I believe the key to either option is choice.

    If a person chooses to change their lifestyle when they move, great. If they choose not to, and cling to their language and traditions, great.

    The only time it's a problem is when there is a conflict, and we have some pretty clear laws about what needs to be respected, and what doesn't.

    Things like special diet and clothing should respected, unless there are specific reason why this isn't possible. Religion-based social laws only matter if they can be passed by the secular government.

    If the rules don't cover the situation, that's why we have courts.

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    Re: Multiculturalism vs Melting pot

    Multiculturalism as a political doctrine is predicated upon double standards and these double standards are a product of overcompensation brought on by guilt. Instead of the same standards being applied to all people, multiculturalist dogma demands that different standards apply to some, and inevitably these double standards support practices that are extremely illiberal in nature. It is really quite racialist when it gets right down to it as certain groups are afforded greater leeway when it comes to their lack of respect for human rights.

    What galls me is the Orwellian nature of the multiculturalist leftists being the chief impediment to the advancement of human rights to all people by supporting knuckle-dragging backwardness that is so extremely conservative in nature as to be off the charts. Hypocrites all.
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