View Poll Results: What are your initial thoughts on the Verizon v. FCC decision?

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  • I agree with the decision, but there will be no negative impact.

    0 0%
  • I agree with the decision, but think it will have a negative impact.

    1 4.55%
  • I disagree with the decision, but don't think there'll be a negative impact.

    2 9.09%
  • I disagree with the decision, but do think it will have a negative impact.

    19 86.36%
  • I have dial-up internet and don't care either way.

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Thread: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

  1. #21
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Mostly political. I don't think it would have much effect overall, but gives the government more of a foot in the door on regulating information and content.
    No, actually, it doesn't do that. You should learn what net neutrality actually is before forming your opinion of it.

    Net neutrality supports entrepreneurship, startups, and therefore competition. Dumping net neutrality is inherently anti-competitive.

    If I want to start up a video streaming service, I will be gouged by every ISP out there. I have to pay their fees to reach my customers, there's no way around them. And since it's essentially impossible for a different ISP to give me a better deal to reach neighborhood X, there's no competition to bring the price down. They have a monopoly in their respective regions. Netflix might be able to take on the additional costs, as they are already a large, well-established company. But DeuceStream isn't. I'm sunk.

    And that's assuming the ISPs even bother to let Netflix survive. More than likely, they'll just charge Netflix exorbitant fees to drive up the prices, making the ISP's own video streaming service inherently more competitive. If Netflix wont pony up whatever insane number the ISP chooses, their business is throttled to the point of becoming useless.

    This ruling gives ISPs the ability to charge the sender and the receiver of data selectively. That's like the post office charging you to send a letter to your grandmother, charging your grandmother for receiving it, and adding an additional fee because your letter contains the word "cookies," whereas if you'd used the post office's approved words you wouldn't see the extra fee. It doesn't cost the post office more money to send the letter if you use the word cookies, they just feel like getting more money out of words they dislike. Oh, and this is in a world where FedEx and UPS literally don't exist, because there's no other organization delivering to your grandmother's neighborhood.
    Last edited by Deuce; 01-16-14 at 11:56 AM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  2. #22
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Large corporations don't have legislative powers. What I have seen in my area is an increase in available services, with more competitive pricing, not a decrease from large corporations squeezing out the competition.
    75% of the population has access to only one cable company.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #23
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So Charter is going to lower the cost of their service?!?

    I already pay my ISP for access and bandwidth, I don't need to be paying them twice because I'm not using MY bandwidth for THEIR content. If they want to play that way they can change their plans and have a CTV-Internet package that provides a discount for having both.
    I agree with you that you're paying for a pipe and the ISP should not be able to impinge on your ability to access whatever content you want. And I don't expect that that's going to happen because, honestly, the FCC retains significant (and unwarranted in my view but that's another story) regulatory power over the Internet.
    Í honestly don't expect that will happen. Costs may go up because frankly under the current scheme big content providers like Netflix and Google get a free ride.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  4. #24
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Is my ISP going to decrease my ISP cost to account for the millions they'll get from Netflix & others like it? Parish the thought!!! But Netflix will have to increase it's cost to account for those same millions.

    Don't kid yourself, the consumer will get screwed by this. In the end we'll pay more for the same service or get less service for the same cost.



    Yeah, nothing like having to pay for YouTube ...
    Someone has to pay for it. All those cables and routers cost a lot of money.

    And honestly there are upsides to it. For example streaming video providers could pay for premium access and insure that you get glitch free video.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  5. #25
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, actually, it doesn't do that. You should learn what net neutrality actually is before forming your opinion of it.

    Net neutrality supports entrepreneurship, startups, and therefore competition. Dumping net neutrality is inherently anti-competitive.

    If I want to start up a video streaming service, I will be gouged by every ISP out there. I have to pay their fees to reach my customers, there's no way around them. And since it's essentially impossible for a different ISP to give me a better deal to reach neighborhood X, there's no competition to bring the price down. They have a monopoly in their respective regions. Netflix might be able to take on the additional costs, as they are already a large, well-established company. But DeuceStream isn't. I'm sunk.

    And that's assuming the ISPs even bother to let Netflix survive. More than likely, they'll just charge Netflix exorbitant fees to drive up the prices, making the ISP's own video streaming service inherently more competitive. If Netflix wont pony up whatever insane number the ISP chooses, their business is throttled to the point of becoming useless.

    This ruling gives ISPs the ability to charge the sender and the receiver of data selectively. That's like the post office charging you to send a letter to your grandmother, charging your grandmother for receiving it, and adding an additional fee because your letter contains the word "cookies," whereas if you'd used the post office's approved words you wouldn't see the extra fee. It doesn't cost the post office more money to send the letter if you use the word cookies, they just feel like getting more money out of words they dislike. Oh, and this is in a world where FedEx and UPS literally don't exist, because there's no other organization delivering to your grandmother's neighborhood.
    Frankly that's not going to happen. I've spent some time reading up on this and have come to the conclusion that the FCC actually won. The court struck down the FCC regulation of broadband as a common carriage because the FCC itself and the courts have determined that broadband providers are not common carriers. Thus the FCC didn't have the legal authority to put those rules in effect using it's common carriage authority.

    However the court also ruled that the FCC can regulate broadband providers under something called "Section 706", which Judge Silberman in his partial dissent noted essentially gave the FCC unlimited regulatory authority over broadband providers. There is nothing to stop the FCC from enforcing those rules by bringing suit against ISPs for what it considers anti-competitive practices.

    So all the net neutrality fans got what they wanted afterall. And then some. The "open and free" Internet is apparently subject to the whim of the FCC.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  6. #26
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    I agree with you that you're paying for a pipe and the ISP should not be able to impinge on your ability to access whatever content you want. And I don't expect that that's going to happen because, honestly, the FCC retains significant (and unwarranted in my view but that's another story) regulatory power over the Internet.
    Í honestly don't expect that will happen.
    The new court ruling ensures the FCC can't stop my ISP from slowing down my Netflix, Hulu, and other feeds - that's what net neutrality was doing and that's been overturned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Costs may go up because frankly under the current scheme big content providers like Netflix and Google get a free ride.
    What "free ride"? I'm paying my ISP for that access just as it should be. If my ISP doesn't like it then they should change their rate structure to compensate or adopt the Netflix business model and provide custom streaming instead of fixed programming. They just don't want to come into the 21st century, that's all. This is a perfect example of near monopolies - actual monopolies in many cases - using their market position to screw people over.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Frankly that's not going to happen. I've spent some time reading up on this and have come to the conclusion that the FCC actually won. The court struck down the FCC regulation of broadband as a common carriage because the FCC itself and the courts have determined that broadband providers are not common carriers. Thus the FCC didn't have the legal authority to put those rules in effect using it's common carriage authority.

    However the court also ruled that the FCC can regulate broadband providers under something called "Section 706", which Judge Silberman in his partial dissent noted essentially gave the FCC unlimited regulatory authority over broadband providers. There is nothing to stop the FCC from enforcing those rules by bringing suit against ISPs for what it considers anti-competitive practices.

    So all the net neutrality fans got what they wanted afterall. And then some. The "open and free" Internet is apparently subject to the whim of the FCC.
    I hope you're right about that but I seriously doubt it. The bloggers at ZDNet don't seem to share your opinion.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  8. #28
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The new court ruling ensures the FCC can't stop my ISP from slowing down my Netflix, Hulu, and other feeds - that's what net neutrality was doing and that's been overturned.

    What "free ride"? I'm paying my ISP for that access just as it should be. If my ISP doesn't like it then they should change their rate structure to compensate or adopt the Netflix business model and provide custom streaming instead of fixed programming. They just don't want to come into the 21st century, that's all. This is a perfect example of near monopolies - actual monopolies in many cases - using their market position to screw people over.
    Read the ruling. The FCC can't promulgate net neutrality rules under it's common carriage authority. It can still regulate regulate them under Section 706 which gives the FCC the ability to regulate broadband providers in the interest of fostering broadband deployment. Here are links that you may find interesting

    Calm down. The courts didn’t just end the open Internet.

    http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01...on | Wired.com

    and a link to the decision itself if you care to read Judge Silberman's dissent where he specifically notes that the FCC still has virtually unlimited regulatory authority over ISPs.

    http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/interne....pdf#page=64/]



    I didn't say you get a free ride. I said Netflix does. They pay for their dedicated connections to the Internet. They do not pay for the bandwidth they use on every other network their packets traverse enroute to your PC. Nor do you btw.
    Last edited by Gaius46; 01-16-14 at 01:20 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    I didn't say you get a free ride. I said Netflix does. They pay for their dedicated connections to the Internet. They do not pay for the bandwidth they use on every other network their packets traverse enroute to your PC.
    I didn't mean I was getting a free ride, though I can see how you might interpret my post that way. I meant Netflix, just like every other content provider out there whether it's YouTube, the WSJ, or DebatePolitics, shouldn't be paying extra for their content to be accessed. They're already paying to get that content on the Net. The end user is who pays (and should be paying) for the content they access - you and I do it every month when we pay our ISP bill. If my ISP provider wants more money for that access then they should change their rate structure. If they can't compete then they're obviously not being as efficient as the other company that's taking their business ... and that's the way it should be. ISPs are there to provide access, not regulate what I'm accessing. They shouldn't have any say on whether I'm watching YouTube, Netflix, or p0rn. It's none of their business as long as they're getting paid for my access bandwidth and monthly download amount.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Nor do you btw.
    Someone's paying for it somewhere along the line. Who do you think it is?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-16-14 at 01:50 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  10. #30
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    Re: Verizon v. FCC (Net Neutrality/ Internet Openness)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post

    I didn't say you get a free ride. I said Netflix does. They pay for their dedicated connections to the Internet. They do not pay for the bandwidth they use on every other network their packets traverse enroute to your PC. Nor do you btw.
    Uhh, yes they do pay that and so do I. Just who do you think pays for it?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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