View Poll Results: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of America?

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  • Very Optimistic

    24 17.27%
  • Somewhat Optimistic

    29 20.86%
  • Dunno

    11 7.91%
  • Somewhat Pessimistic

    47 33.81%
  • Very Pessimistic

    28 20.14%
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Thread: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of America?

  1. #71
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    That maybe how you see it, but I see it differently, every sense WWII we have been on a march to an entitlement society. Now with over 17 trillion in debt and growing by a trillion a yr we are in a death grip. There is no mood to correct this entitlement society to correct the borrowing. Thus this country is not rich or regarded as a supper power, that is relevant today by other powers.



    This statement is ludicrous, who the hell is going to pay our debt back, let alone stop the borrowing. Let me tell you, nobody, we are totally dependent on government, our will to succeed as a nation is over. We are in decline more so than ever before. All the countries are taking us to task. Take Russia, that tells Obama what to do, and others, which are many, which have no concern of a US interruption of their growing terrorist buildup.

    This country has lost it's economic power but also it's position in the world. We are considered just another country trying to survive.

    Remember the poster "We Can Do It" that was when we were a country that pulled together, not anymore. This country will never be like those days of "We Can Do It." Those days are over.
    Right. Because America's the only country on earth up **** creek with debt.

    There's that small matter of being on the tail-end of the meltdown. You probably didn't factor that in, insignificant distraction that it is.

  2. #72
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by loader View Post
    I live in "anticipation of a civil war". Any optimism. I do not believe, even, that healthy forces in the country will win.

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by loader View Post
    I live in "anticipation of a civil war". Any optimism. I do not believe, even, that healthy forces in the country will win.
    We'll never have a civil war because I do not think the majority of Americans have the will to stand and fight for what they believe in, they expect to have the government simply supply it in ever increasing doses. If even a small group of armed and willing combatants stood up and were willing to fight, the rest of the country would fall without a single shot being fired.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #74
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    We'll never have a civil war because I do not think the majority of Americans have the will to stand and fight for what they believe in, they expect to have the government simply supply it in ever increasing doses. If even a small group of armed and willing combatants stood up and were willing to fight, the rest of the country would fall without a single shot being fired.
    That why the government has increased the powers of the NSA. They also understand this. And they want to confiscate our weapons. Under any excuse.

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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by loader View Post
    That why the government has increased the powers of the NSA. They also understand this. And they want to confiscate our weapons. Under any excuse.
    We let them get away with it and we keep electing these idiots. Is it any wonder the nation is in the state that it is?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #76
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    That is only true until it's not, which it never is. Every single malthusian prediction of the past century has been soundly and decisively rebuffed by advances in technology, efficiency, and the contribution of human genius. There is no reason to believe that the multitude of approaches now under serious development and commercialization will not once again yield for us the same liberating results that centuries of similar prior accomplishments have yielded. The malthusian is always wrong because the malthusian treats humans as nothing more than mouths to feed, bodies to clothe, and resources to consume. It is why they have always missed the great developments that urge our civilization forward.
    There's no evidence that our innovations are going to work to the same level that the Green Revolution did.

    You haven't refuted anything I've said, you've just spouted the same old industry propaganda that's been spoonfed to you. Either that, or you work for them.

    Our system is too complex and interdependent to predict exactly when the crisis will happen, which is the only grounds on which people like you dismiss the Malthusian idea. I don't care about the projections, I care about the idea behind them. We cannot indefinitely keep breeding humans and follow the growth model, and expect all of us to be able to live happy, satisfying lives. At some point the imbalances we are creating will take care of us.

    Technology creates more problems that we need more technology to solve, and no technology will increase the earth's resource bounty which we are currently harvesting at 1.5 earths per year. So keep putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la". That kind of denial is only fast tracking us to the very problems that we will eventually have to come to terms with anyway.

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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Right. Because America's the only country on earth up **** creek with debt.
    Of course we are not the only ones with high debt, but we are the only one with this amount of debt. And all one has to do is see what countries are over their head in debt and look at how they are doing.

    There's that small matter of being on the tail-end of the meltdown. You probably didn't factor that in, insignificant distraction that it is.
    We're not at the tail-end of a meltdown we are leading it.
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Of course we are not the only ones with high debt, but we are the only one with this amount of debt. And all one has to do is see what countries are over their head in debt and look at how they are doing.

    We're not at the tail-end of a meltdown we are leading it.
    The Meltdown. The same one that could cause even major world powers to almost sink without a trace, and precipitate a rash of civil uprisings in lesser developed regions of the world. Did you believe we'd bounce back from that overnight?

    How would a country the size of Malta be expected to carry the same level of debt as the US?

  9. #79
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    There's no evidence that our innovations are going to work to the same level that the Green Revolution did.

    You haven't refuted anything I've said, you've just spouted the same old industry propaganda that's been spoonfed to you. Either that, or you work for them.

    Our system is too complex and interdependent to predict exactly when the crisis will happen, which is the only grounds on which people like you dismiss the Malthusian idea. I don't care about the projections, I care about the idea behind them. We cannot indefinitely keep breeding humans and follow the growth model, and expect all of us to be able to live happy, satisfying lives. At some point the imbalances we are creating will take care of us.

    Technology creates more problems that we need more technology to solve, and no technology will increase the earth's resource bounty which we are currently harvesting at 1.5 earths per year. So keep putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la". That kind of denial is only fast tracking us to the very problems that we will eventually have to come to terms with anyway.
    Neo-Malthusianism is dangerous and it is wrong. It's proponents seem fundamentally unwilling to accept the essential and primary role that human ingenuity must play in alleviating our problems, instead they fetishize restriction and the need to dramatically alter our society.

    Take the consumption of resources and over-population, the big thing for Ehrlich and his crew in the 60's-90's. We heard for years about how we were doomed to a resource crush in everything from grain, to water, to copper, to oil & gas. In short collapse was unavoidable. The answer? Population control and state intervention. We needed to adopt measures like China's One Child policy, we needed to provide funding for sterilization efforts, we needed to begin massive intervention to cultivate and safeguard our resources and damn be the organic nature and needs of commercial society. This dismal perspective was encapsulated by the Simon-Ehrlich wager in which Ehrlich bet that the prices of a basked of commodities (copper, chrome, nickel, tungsten, tin) would skyrocket from 1980 to 1990. The high profile bet went in Simon's favor in 1990 as all five commodities fell in value.

    Of course they were wrong. As has always happened the needs of civilization (sometimes greased with state support) propelled the changes needed to alleviate ourselves of these problems. We found better ways to reach new caches of resources, we perfected more efficient extraction methods and it doesn't stop with metals, we expanded industrial agriculture and pioneered new methods of crop production with the Green Revolution, we increased access to water by expanding irrigation and digging new aquifers, and on and on.

    This remains in my view the prevailing problem of their mind set. In their eyes all too often every new human is another mouth to feed, another body to clothe, another potential problem in waiting. While they should see a new mind, a new member of the labor force, a new leader, a new artist, in other words: potential. For example in the long term I think one of the greatest developments in the history of modern civilization has been the lifting of China from the dregs of the third world. We are only just beginning to feel the impact of millions of new scientists, engineers, and artists. Imagine magnifying that by similar developments in the rest of the developing world and you could transform the planet.

    The same types of innovations that lifted us above our problems in the 20th Century will form the blueprint for the 21st. The rise of cheap desalination, innovations in biotechnology and GMO's, more sophisticated extraction methods for rare earths and other minerals, new deposits of oil and gas, revolutions in battery technology, perhaps even developments in renewables like Solar (not at present), and so much more. We live in a century of fantastic possibility. Our only realistic hope is that our genius measures up to the task. Planning for massive global legislation and controls for carbon, water management, or whatever the issue of the day may be is not only unrealistic but counter-productive as it retards growth which breeds the dynamism that allows that aforementioned genius to rise to the surface.

    The Earth has a mass of six trillion trillion kilograms and we've only scratched the surface (literally) of its bounty. How did we avoid peak oil? By innovating new methods for reaching deeper and more inaccessible fields and by creating new tools for increasing efficiency from existing ones. It is a process we will continue to repeat for other resources because the raw materials are there in abundant quantities. Where there is a need a way will be found as it always has.

    We may not be able to indefinitely produce humans but call me back in a few billion years then I'll worry about it. In the interrum we have the entirety of our planet to draw on not to mention our solar system.

  10. #80
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    If the liberal Dems have their way, the future of America is to become a city-state subservient to a one-world U.N. government and its laws and policies.

    If the conservative Repubs have their way, the future of America is their country’s government officials being puppets of international conglomerate agendas corrupting the American democratic process.

    Sadly, a bit of both futures is here now, which is why politicians' poll ratings are so very dismal.

    If either or both of he liberal Dems' and the conservative Repubs' future for America continues, my response to the poll is, obviously, very pessimistic.

    And considering many libertarians support both the liberal Dems' social issue positions and the conservative Repubs' fiscal-economic issue positions, they're also part of the problem.

    But, if we can get The American Family Political Party to come into existence (http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...cal-party.html) ..

    .. My answer to the poll would be, obviously, very optimistic.

    Tick tock, my fellow Americans.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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