View Poll Results: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of America?

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  • Very Optimistic

    24 17.27%
  • Somewhat Optimistic

    29 20.86%
  • Dunno

    11 7.91%
  • Somewhat Pessimistic

    47 33.81%
  • Very Pessimistic

    28 20.14%
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Thread: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of America?

  1. #91
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The Earth has a mass of six trillion trillion kilograms and we've only scratched the surface (literally) of its bounty. How did we avoid peak oil? By innovating new methods for reaching deeper and more inaccessible fields and by creating new tools for increasing efficiency from existing ones. It is a process we will continue to repeat for other resources because the raw materials are there in abundant quantities. Where there is a need a way will be found as it always has.
    Looking at just the earth's mass is myopic. The only thing that is relevant to us is the biosphere. If we continue to destroy it in pursuit of the earth's mass then the huge numbers you quote will be irrelevant. The biosphere exists on a thin slice of the surface, much like bacteria on our skin. If conditions aren't right, we all die. It's not hysteria or political agendas, it's mere scientific fact. All the oil spills, fracking, and fukushima are literally killing the biosphere. Species are dying at unprecedented rates, not because of global warming even, but because of our human waste.

    I just don't understand the ideology behind technological elitism that continues to blindly go forward under the assumption that we will always be able to solve our problems with new tech. Technology always provides short term gains and new long term challenges. People often site medical advances for why humans are now living so long, but what's the point of extending the life of someone who is essentially contributing nothing to human advancement, and watches TV all day while stuffing their face?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123
    We may not be able to indefinitely produce humans but call me back in a few billion years then I'll worry about it. In the interrum we have the entirety of our planet to draw on not to mention our solar system.
    Translation: don't think about the future, just do what's needed now. I feel personally responsible for future generations of not only humans, but other living beings on this planet. I feel a kindred relationship with all of them, probably because I was raised in a natural environment and had regular access to nature. Most humans live in urban ghettos now, completely divorced from their source of life. It's hard for me to live knowing that most of the systems I am plugged into are in some way contributing to the suffering or death of so many of our ecological brethren.

    Eventually, the world ideal must change - growth should no longer be desirable, but rather the ideal economic growth, both globally and locally, should be 0%. We should strive to control resources, populations, and economic systems to the extent that this will become both livable and sustainable. Financing in this new world should be done on a similar basis - at extremely low, if any interest, with tight controls and strict repayment schedules. Also, Nation states should no longer be permitted to accumulate debt. In addition, no longer will our natural resources undergo raping and pillaging to sustain our energy needs, which can hopefully be cut by a factor of 10-25 within a generation.

    It's not a step backwards. It's an acknowledgement that the human race has become large and sophisticated enough to balance itself at an ideal level, in terms of size and societal comfort. Our ambitions shouldn't be tempered, but rather more focused. The childish need to flaunt status through how much disposable crap you have should be looked down upon. The survival of humanity is no longer in question (outside of self-destruction or act of God), and we do not need 10 billion people on the planet; nor do we need any of them to be billionaires. It will require a massive jolt to dislodge ourselves from our current, reckless trajectory, but it will be worth it. Make no mistake though, we will be dislodged either way, whether it's by our own will or an act of nature. If the biosphere is degraded enough, we are finished.
    Last edited by Northern Light; 01-14-14 at 10:06 PM.

  2. #92
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    As a Conservative, your part is to pursue restriction and even stasis; this is your ideological prerogative. You can do nothing else while you cleave to this perspective. I understand. But since what amounts to an 'endless supply of money' resides firmly within the grasp of those least susceptible to the measures you champion, we see once more that 'Wing' politics are fundamentally flawed.
    Got it, you feel there is an endless supply of money, and no matter how high our national debt is, it's no matter.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  3. #93
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Got it, you feel there is an endless supply of money, and no matter how high our national debt is, it's no matter.
    You see?

    Viewed via a lens of staunch Conservatism, dialogue is apt to be dangerously misinterpreted. The same applies for the Left, which is why I choose the fence.

  4. #94
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Looking at just the earth's mass is myopic. The only thing that is relevant to us is the biosphere. If we continue to destroy it in pursuit of the earth's mass then the huge numbers you quote will be irrelevant. The biosphere exists on a thin slice of the surface, much like bacteria on our skin. If conditions aren't right, we all die. It's not hysteria or political agendas, it's mere scientific fact. All the oil spills, fracking, and fukushima are literally killing the biosphere. Species are dying at unprecedented rates, not because of global warming even, but because of our human waste.

    I just don't understand the ideology behind technological elitism that continues to blindly go forward under the assumption that we will always be able to solve our problems with new tech. Technology always provides short term gains and new long term challenges. People often site medical advances for why humans are now living so long, but what's the point of extending the life of someone who is essentially contributing nothing to human advancement, and watches TV all day while stuffing their face?



    Translation: don't think about the future, just do what's needed now. I feel personally responsible for future generations of not only humans, but other living beings on this planet. I feel a kindred relationship with all of them, probably because I was raised in a natural environment and had regular access to nature. Most humans live in urban ghettos now, completely divorced from their source of life. It's hard for me to live knowing that most of the systems I am plugged into are in some way contributing to the suffering or death of so many of our ecological brethren.

    Eventually, the world ideal must change - growth should no longer be desirable, but rather the ideal economic growth, both globally and locally, should be 0%. We should strive to control resources, populations, and economic systems to the extent that this will become both livable and sustainable. Financing in this new world should be done on a similar basis - at extremely low, if any interest, with tight controls and strict repayment schedules. Also, Nation states should no longer be permitted to accumulate debt. In addition, no longer will our natural resources undergo raping and pillaging to sustain our energy needs, which can hopefully be cut by a factor of 10-25 within a generation.

    It's not a step backwards. It's an acknowledgement that the human race has become large and sophisticated enough to balance itself at an ideal level, in terms of size and societal comfort. Our ambitions shouldn't be tempered, but rather more focused. The childish need to flaunt status through how much disposable crap you have should be looked down upon. The survival of humanity is no longer in question (outside of self-destruction or act of God), and we do not need 10 billion people on the planet; nor do we need any of them to be billionaires. It will require a massive jolt to dislodge ourselves from our current, reckless trajectory, but it will be worth it. Make no mistake though, we will be dislodged either way, whether it's by our own will or an act of nature. If the biosphere is degraded enough, we are finished.
    Does all this stuff really make any difference, when the sun burns out, it's all over anyway.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  5. #95
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    You see?

    Viewed via a lens of staunch Conservatism, dialogue is apt to be dangerously misinterpreted. The same applies for the Left, which is why I choose the fence.
    Thanks for agreeing with my statement.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  6. #96
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Thanks for agreeing with my statement.
    I'm nothing if not congenial, brah.

  7. #97
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    I'm nothing if not congenial, brah.
    Yeah, but why not just come out and say the obvious.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  8. #98
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Yeah, but why not just come out and say the obvious.
    You couldn't possibly recognise it, irrevocably tainted by the Wings as you are. I've no desire to further protract your misery.

  9. #99
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    You couldn't possibly recognise it, irrevocably tainted by the Wings as you are. I've no desire to further protract your misery.
    I get what your all about. It's didn't take long. Don't need to know anything more.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  10. #100
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    Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Does all this stuff really make any difference, when the sun burns out, it's all over anyway.
    No optimism here!

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