Is minimum wage a lot?

Master PO · Jan 12, 2014

jamesrage said:
Who looked at it that way? The people opposed to minimum wage and the people opposed to minimum wage increases?

anyone who believe in free markets, and right of property and liberty, are opposed to minimum wage.

when a person enters the job market for the first time, they have no experience, ....also in being responsible and dependable to an employer.

minimum wage, is the starting ladder of working in the private sector.

i started working for a little over 2 dollars {minimum wage] on my first job, and have never worked for that wage again, as i have had more jobs and gained more experience.

jamesrage said:
Everything an elected official campaigns on is to buy votes.

100%..yes.

and its being done in the name of fairness, by pitting one citizen against another.

CalGun · Jan 12, 2014

To the OP minimum wage is a lot if you have nothing else. If you have nothing at all and need something to survive it can be a real hindrance too.

jamesrage · Jan 12, 2014

ernst barkmann said:
anyone who believe in free markets, and right of property and liberty, are opposed to minimum wage.

Wrong.The only people opposed to minimum wage and minimum wage increases are those opposed to minimum wage and minimum wage increases. Property rights, free markets and liberty are irreverent to minimum wage.

minimum wage, is the starting ladder of working in the private sector.

Wrong again. Minimum wage is the lowest amount an employer can legally get away with paying someone.Nothing more nothing less.Trying to paint it as some sort of training wage is a blatant lie used as a talking point by people against minimum wage and minimum wage increases.

Master PO · Jan 12, 2014

jamesrage said:
Wrong.The only people opposed to minimum wage and minimum wage increases are those opposed to minimum wage and minimum wage increases. Property rights, free markets and liberty are irreverent to minimum wage.

wrong nothing.......if i own a business , it is for me the business owner to choose how much is paid...not governments.

as a business owner ,it is my property.....property is a right....not a privilege.....and commerce is also a right.

how many people do you know who love being told by the government......"you WILL do this"?

jamesrage said:
Wrong again. Minimum wage is the lowest amount an employer can legally get away with paying someone.Nothing more nothing less.Trying to paint it as some sort of training wage is a blatant lie used as a talking point by people against minimum wage and minimum wage increases.

no... as an employer hiring someone with no experience, in a low skill low, low responsibility position, i going to start them out at the minimum....when the minimum wage is raised, all other wages have to come up to compensate those who have more experience, responsibility, and longer work record.

you seem , to want to use the power of government to apply force to people........which will in time, amount to more and more, and causes government to fail.......force is never the answer is a free society.

this is why i argue with conservatives sometimes......becuase they act like liberals....becuase they want government force applied on people ,.......if they think its right.....using their feelings and compassion, to be their judge for them.....which is a mistake.

Fiddytree · Jan 13, 2014

ernst barkmann said:
wrong nothing.......if i own a business , it is for me the business owner to choose how much is paid...not governments.

as a business owner ,it is my property.....property is a right....not a privilege.....and commerce is also a right.

how many people do you know who love being told by the government......"you WILL do this"?

Much like a child being told by an adult, for their own good that they have to act responsibly. Limitations certainly exist, but if you are going to get into a hissy fit each time the government instructs businesses how to conduct themselves, good luck finding much out there that will please.

no... as an employer hiring someone with no experience, in a low skill low, low responsibility position, i going to start them out at the minimum....when the minimum wage is raised, all other wages have to come up to compensate those who have more experience, responsibility, and longer work record.

It's not singularly an entry level pay grade to have an entry level pay grade. Its purpose is most importantly to allow citizens to live off of it.

you seem , to want to use the power of government to apply force to people........which will in time, amount to more and more, and causes government to fail.......force is never the answer is a free society.

this is why i argue with conservatives sometimes......becuase they act like liberals....becuase they want government force applied on people ,.......if they think its right.....using their feelings and compassion, to be their judge for them.....which is a mistake.

Or rather, you are the liberal for shrugging off that much of your European conservative principles of noblesse oblige.

Mason66 · Jan 13, 2014

Peter Grimm said:
We're a wealthy country. We can afford to ensure a good standard of living for every one of our citizens.

It's inhuman that you have CEO's making multi-million dollar salaries, you have investors making millions without doing anything at all, you have football players making millions, all while millions of Americans are living hand to mouth.

I think you should start with the Hollywood crowd.

If there is any group of people that did not earn their money, it is them.

Please let us know how that works out when you demand they turn over 90% of what they make to give to poor people.

Mason66 · Jan 13, 2014

Peter Grimm said:
Who says it's their money? What does it say on a dollar bill? It says "United States of America."

Are you of the opinion that any property inside the United States belongs to everybody?

Mason66 · Jan 13, 2014

Peter Grimm said:
My political beliefs changed a lot about a month ago when the pope issued his papal exhortation in which he criticized unfettered capitalism and called upon the people and governments of the world to do more for the poor.

Ironically, I've always been a big Rush Limbaugh fan and it was on his show that I first heard about the pope's paper. As he was ripping in to the pope and demanding that he retract his statement, my heart and mind started to change.

Who is Rush Limbaugh to call out the pope like that? Conservatives are supposed to be the more religious type, but here is Limbaugh ripping up Christianity's #1 head hauncho.

At that point, I began to realize the pope was right. We pay lip service to being Christians, but we worship the almighty dollar. That started me down a road where I examined my own beliefs about free markets and the conclusion I came up with was that there will always be a certain percentage that are poor, no matter what. It's up to the rest of us to take care of them, that's our moral duty. The better we take care of them, the better people we are.

To try to ignore the poor or let them get by on mere scraps is simply greed, and that's what I think motivated Limbaugh to rip the Pope. I don't want to be the kind of person that's driven by greed. So I changed my leanings.

So in the past month what have you changed in your personal life to be able to help the poor?

Did you sell your house to find a small apartment to save money?

Did you sell your second and third car?

All that money can be given to the poor.

Mason66 · Jan 13, 2014

Peter Grimm said:
The irony is that we're so unimaginably wealthy in this country that we could easily eliminate poverty altogether and nobody would have to sell off all their belongings or come anywhere close to doing that.

It will never happen, though.

Do you know what the definition of the word poverty is?

There is nobody living in poverty in the US.

If somebody does not have a house there are programs for that.

if somebody does not have food there are programs for that.

There is no poverty in the US.

Mason66 · Jan 13, 2014

Peter Grimm said:
I think an exception should be made for teens with summer jobs, they should continue to make the current salary.

If that is the case I will only hire teens for my minimum wage jobs, assuming I had any.

Is that what you want?

jamesrage · Jan 13, 2014

ernst barkmann said:
wrong nothing.......if i own a business , it is for me the business owner to choose how much is paid...not governments.

If you are not paying your workers enough to live off and those workers are working full time then it is most certainly the government's job to tell you how much you have have to pay someone.

as a business owner ,it is my property.....property is a right....not a privilege.....and commerce is also a right.

Regulating Commerce is the government's right.

how many people do you know who love being told by the government......"you WILL do this"?

No one loves being told you will do this.At the same time reasonable people do not want anarchy.

you seem , to want to use the power of government to apply force to people........which will in time, amount to more and more, and causes government to fail.......force is never the answer is a free society.

this is why i argue with conservatives sometimes......becuase they act like liberals....becuase they want government force applied on people ,.......if they think its right.....using their feelings and compassion, to be their judge for them.....which is a mistake.

Sometimes force is necessary.Its why we have the laws we have now.

Master PO · Jan 13, 2014

Fiddytree said:
Much like a child being told by an adult, for their own good that they have to act responsibly. Limitations certainly exist, but if you are going to get into a hissy fit each time the government instructs businesses how to conduct themselves, good luck finding much out there that will please.

when i argue, its not based on my feelings, but what the constitution says, and the federal government has no authority in the life's liberty and property of the people..... that is a state power.

Fiddytree said:
It's not singularly an entry level pay grade to have an entry level pay grade. Its purpose is most importantly to allow citizens to live off of it.

it is not designed to have a family live off that wage...so we agree to disagree

Fiddytree said:
Or rather, you are the liberal for shrugging off that much of your European conservative principles of noblesse oblige.

no ....liberals think with compassion, and feelings, and that is unless in law.

Master PO · Jan 13, 2014

jamesrage said:
If you are not paying your workers enough to live off and those workers are working full time then it is most certainly the government's job to tell you how much you have have to pay someone.

Regulating Commerce is the government's right.

No one loves being told you will do this.At the same time reasonable people do not want anarchy.

Sometimes force is necessary.Its why we have the laws we have now.

federalist 45--The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

the federal government was given the power of commerce AMONG the states, not inside them.......this was to solve trade wars and trade barriers between states, which happened during the articles of confederation..

there is no power of FORCE IN THE CONSTITUTION, that is given to congress over the people the founders created.

MoSurveyor · Jan 13, 2014

Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot? (ConUS)

That deserves a 3/3 ... :lamo :lamo :lamo

Zyphlin · Jan 13, 2014

vasuderatorrent said:
Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot of money?

Relatively speaking the world over, yes. But that's a poor way of viewing it.

Relatively speaking to the national average regarding finances? No.

But then the question is "Should it be". Personally, the minimum wage any particular task should be paid is not something that should qualify as "a lot of money" in my book.

Lursa · Jan 13, 2014

No. Is it supposed to be 'alot?'

It probably wouldnt be called 'minimum' wage if it was.

MoSurveyor · Jan 13, 2014

Neomalthusian said:
Not everyone is an idiot, but starting a family before you're financially ready is idiotic. Accepting a minimum wage job but then adopting the opinion that it should, for some reason, pay well enough to earn a living and raise a family… also idiotic.

Nobody short of a Kennedy-type is "financially ready" to start a family. That's a simple-minded statement --- at best.

Mr. Invisible · Jan 13, 2014

Cephus said:
Then they should move.

Yes, because everyone can just immediately uproot their lives and move somewhere else! And on top of that moving is 100% free!

MoSurveyor · Jan 13, 2014

ernst barkmann said:
the constitution applies no force to the people and it gave no power to the federal government to apply force to "we the people"

all federal laws, which can be made that pertain the delegated powers of congress, and those powers, have nothing to do with the personal life's of the people.

federalist 45--"The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State"

I see you're still quoting one-sided opinions on what the contract says instead of the letter of the contract itself.
:lamo

ernst barkmann said:
i never knew government was empowered to make decisions, for the people concerning their personal life's?........which they are not

Then you obviously need to read the Constitution itself instead of those one-sided opinions you keep basing your arguments on. Sorry, the CONTRACT is the law, not some dead guy's opinion of what it was "supposed" to mean. There were 55 signers of 13 states (well, technically, colonies at the time) and you base your arguments on the opinion of less than a tenth of them. Wake up and smell the law.

Master PO · Jan 13, 2014

MoSurveyor said:
I see you're still quoting one-sided opinions on what the contract says instead of the letter of the contract itself.

show me where in the federal constitution.... where government is given power to limit /restrict the people..

it is government restricted by the constitution not the people.

MoSurveyor said:
Then you obviously need to read the Constitution itself instead of those one-sided opinions you keep basing your arguments on. Sorry, the CONTRACT is the law, not some dead guy's opinion of what it was "supposed" to mean. There were 55 signers of 13 states (well, technically, colonies at the time) and you base your arguments on the opinion of less than a tenth of them. Wake up and smell the law.

i need to read?, your saying.....i guess that means you have read it then.

again, show me where government is given authority over the people......

it silly to say the founders threw off the king, to put a federal government on their backs.

MoSurveyor · Jan 13, 2014

ernst barkmann said:
anyone who believe in free markets, and right of property and liberty, are opposed to minimum wage.

A completely free market is nothing more than a system of slavery. Shackles and bars can be forged just as much of money as they can of iron or steel. The only way capitalism becomes workable is to fetter it. Even Adam Smith had no illusions about that.

MoSurveyor · Jan 13, 2014

ernst barkmann said:
show me where in the federal constitution.... where government is given power to limit /restrict the people..

it is government restricted by the constitution not the people.

i need to read?, your saying.....i guess that means you have read it then.

again, show me where government is given authority over the people......

it silly to say the founders threw off the king, to put a federal government on their backs.

We've been through this argument at least three times already and you've hit a wall each and every time. I'm not going down that useless road again. Dig yourself out of the first three, then get back to me.

The Federalist papers are not now and never have been the law. Citing them as the law is disingenuous at best.

Master PO · Jan 13, 2014

MoSurveyor said:
We've been through this argument at least three times already and you've hit a wall each and every time. I'm not going down that useless road again. Dig yourself out of the first three, then get back to me.

The Federalist papers are not now and never have been the law.

you said i need to read the constitution, so your saying you have READ IT.........OK, show be where government is given authority over the people...what article and section is it?

MoSurveyor · Jan 13, 2014

ernst barkmann said:
you said i need to read the constitution, so your saying you have READ IT.........OK, show be where government is given authority over the people...what article and section is it?

I-8 holds a few examples and there are several others. Quit acting the fool.

Master PO · Jan 13, 2014

MoSurveyor said:
I-8 holds a few examples and there are several others. Quick acting the fool.

show them to me,...post them.

its simple you cant, all you do is refute me with your words and that is all, you can produce nothing.

Is minimum wage a lot?

Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot?

Yes, give your general geographic location

No, give your general geographic location

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