View Poll Results: Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot?

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Thread: Is minimum wage a lot?

  1. #341
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    MoSurveyor's Avatar
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Nope. Capitalism cannot exist under a "might makes right" environment. Private ownership of the means of production is predicated on the concept of ownership and property rights.

    Your use of the term "unfettered capitalism" describes something that isn't capitalism and is disingenuous.
    Unregulated* capitalism IS a Might Makes Right environment.


    *If you're so hung up on "unfettered" then I'll use "unregulated" instead - but it's the same meaning, no restrictions on business at all.



    BTW - The new thread on the net neutrality reminded me that in many parts of the country there is an ISP monopoly. Anyone can lay cable lines anywhere (as long as they can buy the easement for it) but many parts of the country have only one cable line and one ISP providing service (the same applies to CTV for that matter). Those companies are usually severely regulated (and rightly so!) by a state agency because of their monopoly.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-16-14 at 03:47 PM.
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  2. #342
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Just like pollution. You can't point to one person and prove it was ACME's pollution that injured them.
    This thread happens to be about minimum wage laws, and paying someone below a fixed price is a victimless crime. Nobody's person or property is violated.

  3. #343
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    This thread happens to be about minimum wage laws, and paying someone below a fixed price is a victimless crime. Nobody's person or property is violated.
    The same applies to pollution. You can't prove it in court so it must not be a real injury.
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  4. #344
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The same applies to pollution. You can't prove it in court so it must not be a real injury.
    A person being paid below minimum wage does not have his person or property damaged in any way. When the state punishes a person for paying someone below minimum wage the state is initiating aggression.

  5. #345
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    A person being paid below minimum wage does not have his person or property damaged in any way. When the state punishes a person for paying someone below minimum wage the state is initiating aggression.
    Being payed below the minimum wage is the damage inflicted.
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  6. #346
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Unregulated* capitalism IS a Might Makes Right environment.

    *If you're so hung up on "unfettered" then I'll use "unregulated" instead - but it's the same meaning, no restrictions on business at all.
    Under a "might makes right" scenario, the strong may take what you own, violating your property rights. Private ownership of the means of production cannot exist in the absence of regulations that protect property rights and ensure that ownership actually means something.

    The term "unregulated capitalism" makes as much sense as the phrase "round triangle"

    BTW - The new thread on the net neutrality reminded me that in many parts of the country there is an ISP monopoly. Anyone can lay cable lines anywhere (as long as they can buy the easement for it) but many parts of the country have only one cable line and one ISP providing service (the same applies to CTV for that matter). Those companies are usually severely regulated (and rightly so!) by a state agency because of their monopoly.
    Cable companies have competition from satellite internet providers.
    Last edited by Federalist; 01-16-14 at 04:10 PM.

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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Being payed below the minimum wage is the damage inflicted.
    There is no damage inflicted, neither to the body or the property of the employee.

  8. #348
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    A person being paid below minimum wage does not have his person or property damaged in any way. When the state punishes a person for paying someone below minimum wage the state is initiating aggression.
    Society as a whole is being damaged, just as it is with pollution. You can't pin either down to one person/one cause but the damage as a whole is still there.
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  9. #349
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    There is no damage inflicted, neither to the body or the property of the employee.
    There is no provable damage inflicted specifically by ACME's pollution, either, but the result is damage none-the-less.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  10. #350
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Under a "might makes right" scenario, the strong may take what you own, violating your property rights. Private ownership of the means of production cannot exist in the absence of regulations that protect property rights and ensure that ownership actually means something.
    Even in your narrow-minded scenario the only property that needs "protecting" is the means of production - and that only needs protecting from damage and destruction. If it's not destroyed then whoever takes it can still use it for production. Doesn't matter which carpenter wields the hammer, the nail will still get driven into the board.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The term "unregulated capitalism" makes as much sense as the phrase "round triangle"
    Tell it to Ayn Rand and her disciples ...

    When I say "capitalism", I mean a full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.
    Ayn Rand - The Virtue of Selfishness (1964)

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Cable companies have competition from satellite internet providers.
    Which requires phone access - another monopoly in many areas. Take your pick of which monopoly you prefer.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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