View Poll Results: Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot?

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Thread: Is minimum wage a lot?

  1. #301
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Here's how it works: It's your life, and you are supposed to support it and provide the means to sustain it.

    So...every person must decide for himself when he feels he is ready to have children.
    So, another person who simply will not define what percentage of your income reaches the golden line of "ready". Is a couple who has $600 left over for leisure after $1,600 in expenses financially ready to have kids when raising a kids can easily cost $1,000 a month? What factors define financially ready? It will save you 10 pages of bull****ting if you just say "Look, financially ready is a term we've made up because we haven't actually raised children. We just know it's not attainable by the middle class or the lower middle class or the lower class once it's defined."
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #302
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    3 posts and you still won't define financially ready?
    I don't need to give explicit criteria in order to validate the statement "having children before obtaining the means to care for them is stupid."

    Do you think having children before identifying and obtaining the requisites to adequately care for them is a good decision? Is that what you're saying?

    I didn't think you could either. Here's an easy way to define it: A couple living on $3,000 a month, are they "financially ready" to have children in a city like New York?
    No. Rent in NYC averages $3,000 a month. If you can only come up with $36,000 a year between TWO PEOPLE in NYC, no, you're not there yet. Conceiving children in that situation is stupid.

    After that: what about a couple living on $1,500 a month in West Virginia?
    No. $18,000 a year is not sufficient anywhere in this country to be financially ready for the costs of parenthood. If you can only come up with $18k a year between two people, you're clearly not there yet financially for it to be smart to bring children into that situation.

    Come on Neomalthusian, own up to those statements about "financially ready"? You're sounding like you don't actually have a family of your own when you duck and dodge
    You seem excited like you've caught me with some zinger. I have made extremely reasonable statements and just because I won't get pedantically detailed with explicit criteria does not mean I've said anything unreasonable or even disputable.

  3. #303
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I don't need to give explicit criteria in order to validate the statement "having children before obtaining the means to care for them is stupid."
    Here is your statement again: "starting a family before you're financially ready is idiotic."

    I asked you to define "financially ready" - and you seem to be catching on at least partially:

    - $18,000 a year is not sufficient anywhere to be financially ready for the costs of parenthood.
    - Rent in NYC averages $3,000 a month. If you can only come up with $36,000 a year between TWO PEOPLE in NYC, you're not there yet.
    Hm, so wait, you're telling us that people who manage to live reasonably well on those incomes aren't financially ready? Seems this is where your argument falls apart as there are literally millions of families living on those incomes who aren't drags on society when you factor in cost of living and would by any standard be financially capable to hold their own on those incomes. See why it is I don't believe you actually have raised a family of your own? Alright, here's the best question you'll get in a while: What factors define whether a person is financially ready? I keep asking you the same question in different ways and you refuse to clarify or qualify your statement. I guess some pseudo-intellectuals are content with self serving generalities. I'm not.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #304
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Here is your statement again: "starting a family before you're financially ready is idiotic."

    I asked you to define "financially ready" - and you seem to be catching on at least partially:

    Hm, so wait, you're telling us that people who manage to live reasonably well on those incomes aren't financially ready?
    People who don't have wealth or income that even comes close to covering the normal expenses of raising children are, by definition, not financially ready to be having children.

    It doesn't make sense that you or anyone would be so obtuse in objecting to this.

    See why it is I don't believe you actually have raised a family of your own?
    I don't care what you believe or disbelieve about my personal life.

    Alright, here's the best question you'll get in a while: What factors define whether a person is financially ready?
    Disposable income sufficient to cover additional expenses, percentage of income that would be needed to house a larger family (e.g. if you're a couple that spends 40% of your income on a studio in your area, you're not financially ready for a larger family unless you secure a higher paying job in the same area or a job that pays enough to afford housing in a different area).

    Honestly have you NEVER thought about family budgeting before or something? Makes me think YOU haven't raised a family if these notions are so foreign to you.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 01-15-14 at 12:35 AM.

  5. #305
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    People who don't have wealth or income that even comes close to covering the normal expenses of raising children are, by definition, not financially ready to be having children.
    Now we're getting somewhere. At least you're not dodging anymore. So alright, a couple with an aggregate income of $70K and living expenses of say $46K:

    1. Need to travel to work.
    2. Cost of food in the area.
    3. Housing

    They're not financially ready to have child (lower disposable income). However, a couple with an aggregate income of say $40K and living expenses of around $25K is financially ready to have kids? Yes? That's the what you're going to go with here?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-15-14 at 12:50 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #306
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Hm, I don't recall offering any economic theories. Can you refresh my memory and tell me theory I have put forth?
    You've been doing it this entire thread and in many others as well. I call your theories Dreamland.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yet you are impotent to identify anyone whose person or property has been assaulted or damaged by the act of offering to pay below the fixed price. Duly noted. No victim. Victimless crime.
    Try reading a history book.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  7. #307
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Uh, yeah. That's what I just said. Ownership is NOT the same as simply having something. Ownership is a legally recognized right to have something.

    Without ownership, capitalism (private OWNERSHIP of the means of production) cannot exist. It is predicated on the legal concept of ownership.
    Doesn't require a legal system, just the social recognition. It might be recognized by law but that's not a requirement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Nope. Ownership is a legal right, and can only be determined legally, not by might makes right.
    If Might Makes Right is the social system then it's quite acceptable as means of determining ownership - no laws required. I'm sure there were many situations of communal ownership long before there were laws to address the idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I duly note your failure to provide any example of a company that has eliminated all it's competition and achieved monopoly status.
    I can easily see Intel and AMD combining together 10 years ago to control the CPU market. Not even a stretch of the imagination.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    You once again display your ignorance. Ownership is a collection of legal rights to use and enjoy property, including the right to transmit it to others.
    Yawn - same song, same error.



    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Slavery is a violation of a person's ownership rights in his own body.
    Which in no way stops a capitalist society from practicing it.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #308
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    and your not interested the following supreme law
    Supreme law?

    The only "supreme law" is survival of the fittest in a given system, whether it be a living jungle in South America or a concrete jungle in the US.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-15-14 at 01:39 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #309
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Here's how it works: It's your life, and you are supposed to support it and provide the means to sustain it.

    So...every person must decide for himself when he feels he is ready to have children.
    You're never ready to have children.

    Or at least I think so...don't have any yet.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Demanding that minimum wage give you everything you could possibly want is just another symptom - and more proof - of the entitlement system we live in.

    Economic liberals can't push themselves forward, so they'd rather pull everyone else back.
    Well said.

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