View Poll Results: Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot?

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Thread: Is minimum wage a lot?

  1. #281
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What are you going to do, write a law that says your minimum wage is at least 1/3 of your last year's wages?
    WTF are you talking about?

    my point was simply, I can feel some sympathy for the first guy. he worked hard and had a good job and then lost it. I have no sympathy for the second guy.

    FWIW, minimum wage should be based on the value that the job brings to the employer and not on some "warm and fuzzy" concept of what the employee "deserves"
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  2. #282
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Ownership is a bundle of legal rights to use and control a particular rivalrous resource. A thief who steals something does not own that thing. It is still the property of the original owner.
    He owns it if his society recognizes it. In the end that's all that ownership really is, a recognition that an object is controlled by a given person or entity. Ownership can just as easily be determined by physical power or some other attribute as by legal power - it all depends on the society. Your definition is provincial at best but unrealistic is closer to the mark.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Precisely what I just said. Monopolies, to the extent they exist, are government grants of privilege in which certain actors are vested with exclusive rights to stop competition.

    Absent such government interference in people's rights, monopolies don't exist. No company has ever eliminated every one of its competitors without the government helping it do so.
    What a load! LOL! Be thankful we don't allow monopolies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, I think the law was unnecessary. Unless vested with special privileges by the government, monopolies cannot occur.
    Wrong! Though I'm sure you MUST see it that way or all is lost. LOL!


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Capitalism, a system in which the means of production are owned by private individuals, necessarily depends on a legal framework that recognizes ownership rights. A might makes right society cannot be a capitalist society, because there is no legal concept of ownership.
    Ownership does not depend on a legal framework.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Slavery is not capitalist. It violates the ownership rights of people to their own bodies.
    You mean England beat us to the punch? - America wasn't a capitalist society until 1860-something?!?
    What a load of horsecrap!

    3/3 for repeating your mistake!
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  3. #283
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    FWIW, minimum wage should be based on the value that the job brings to the employer and not on some "warm and fuzzy" concept of what the employee "deserves"
    It should but seldom, if ever, is. For business, labor is nothing more than another commodity where wages are determined only by their market value. It doesn't matter how much money the employee makes for the company, all that matters is what the replacement cost is.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #284
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    seriously, if everyone waited until they were "financially ready" to start a family, the human race would go extinct in about 60 years.
    It came as a shock to me just how much a kid can cost. I had the luck that my kid was born healthy, but what if she hadn't been? I hate to use this example but let's say you have a "financially ready" family. They have saved up $20K before the kid is born. They think they're financially ready. Then the kid is born and 3 years later some kind of heart decease/cancer/lung problems/mental disability is found. They get hit by $70K of hospital bills and that family that was considered financially stable can be considered irresponsible by Libertarians who don't have family of their own? **** that noise.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  5. #285
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Your crank economic theories notwithstanding,


    MY crank economic theories?!? Last time I looked (about 5 seconds ago) you're the one tooting the Dreamland horn, not me. I know what reality is, I've been there and lived it. You think one debate for fun defines my ideals? How little you know. Now, go read The Probability Broach, again, and get your rocks off.




    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    you are admitting that the act of paying someone below a particular price does not assault or damage anyone's person or property. As such, the government has no business punishing people for an act that does not assault or damage anyone's person or property.
    In fact, I said the exact opposite - it harms a huge number of people, namely anyone in society that isn't independently wealthy. Or don't you understand what "race to the bottom" means?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-14-14 at 08:00 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  6. #286
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Can I share some reality with you? or Is reality too foolish for you?
    So long as it's actually reality and not your emotional wishful thinking, sure.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #287
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It came as a shock to me just how much a kid can cost. I had the luck that my kid was born healthy, but what if she hadn't been? I hate to use this example but let's say you have a "financially ready" family. They have saved up $20K before the kid is born. They think they're financially ready. Then the kid is born and 3 years later some kind of heart decease/cancer/lung problems/mental disability is found. They get hit by $70K of hospital bills and that family that was considered financially stable can be considered irresponsible by Libertarians who don't have family of their own? **** that noise.
    After multiple trips to the ER and a couple of hospital stays to the tune of over $20K (after insurance paid their part), we finally discovered that our firstborn had childhood asthma triggered by a peanut allergy. There is just no way to be "financially ready" for stuff like that.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  8. #288
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    MY crank economic theories?!? Last time I looked (about 5 seconds ago) you're the one tooting the Dreamland horn, not me.
    Hm, I don't recall offering any economic theories. Can you refresh my memory and tell me theory I have put forth?

    In fact, I said the exact opposite - it harms a huge number of people, namely anyone in society that isn't independently wealthy. Or don't you understand what "race to the bottom" means?
    Yet you are impotent to identify anyone whose person or property has been assaulted or damaged by the act of offering to pay below the fixed price. Duly noted. No victim. Victimless crime.
    Last edited by Federalist; 01-14-14 at 08:30 PM.

  9. #289
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    After multiple trips to the ER and a couple of hospital stays to the tune of over $20K (after insurance paid their part), we finally discovered that our firstborn had childhood asthma triggered by a peanut allergy. There is just no way to be "financially ready" for stuff like that.
    Similar situation - but different country. My kid was hit in St. Maarten by a nasty but nonlethal bark scorpion. It was bound to happen. She was walking in the grass during a party and there it was. The bill for the doctor's visit alone came at around 5 sheets because neither of us had established a residence in the country yet. Sure, we can afford it - no problem - but imagine a family that is putting away maybe $50-$60 a month and using the expensive ass American system? 5 sheets won't even cover the medicine in some cases. That f'n comment about being financially ready before having a family just made me chuckle. I got 20-30 people on my FB that couldn't possibly afford kids if they had to deal with 1) today's prices 2) being financially ready.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #290
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    How much money should an adult ought to be making? Follow up question: where can this rule be found?
    Enough to pay for his or her own needs and those of the offspring they chose to create. Really...is it that difficult to understand? Hell...if you live in a Yurt in the woods and drink from a stream and crap behind a bushes and eat only berries and twigs and make your clothing out of woven materials plucked from the earth...you can live pretty cheaply.

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