View Poll Results: Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot?

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Thread: Is minimum wage a lot?

  1. #251
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you do not have the ability to refute anything becuase you do not even understand what has been posted.

    if you had read it correctly, you would have seen i said legislative authority [congress] , has no general authority over the people.......the executive branch is not congress, and if you violate a federal power article 1 section8 or commit treason, the feds can arrest you.

    talk about other people's lack of reading comprehension....look at yours!
    No, you did what you always do. You made an absurd blanket statement that gets refuted. Then you refine your original blanket statement to adjust for the part that was refuted. When that also is shown to be untrue, you further refine your statement to cover that rebuttal. It's an endless game of BS with you changing your tune every time you're shown to be wrong.

    That in and of itself wouldn't be so bad except the next thread will start over with the same absurd blanket statement and the process repeats itself. You have at least three pending threads where your position was shot down and you still insist on repeating the process.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    In theory, that could be $15,080 per year. There really isn't a magical number. You seem reluctant to provide a magic number.

    I have never heard of a dead 4 year old that died of starvation because his parents only maybe $15,080 between the two of them. You probably haven't either. I'm not saying it hasn't happened but it hasn't made headlines.
    Because there isn't a magic number, it depends on where you live what that dollar threshold might be. It's a concept and I'd say that if you can care for your family, keep a roof over your head and food on the table and not have your hand out to the government, you're probably okay. That's a dead minimum. It's just skill and effort that can make you more comfortable and more money above and beyond the minimums.
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  3. #253
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Are you suggesting that a 40 year old man with two kids who quits a job making $55,000 per year in order to get a new job making $15,080 per year is mentally ill or physically handicapped?

    Same question, slightly different:

    Are you suggesting that a 40 year old man with two kids who is fired from a job making $55,000 per year, then gets a new job making $15,080 per year is mentally ill or physically handicapped?

    The logic seems very simplistic.
    Mentally ill? Perhaps not. Irresponsible? Absolutely, assuming this was a choice.

    I don't respect irresponsible people a bit.
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  4. #254
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot of money?
    The answer is subjective. Each person has his own subjective notion of what "a lot" means.

  5. #255
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Unfettered capitalism is an oxymoron. If people are lawless and unfettered there can be no secure property rights and individual liberty, and without secure property rights and individual liberty there cannot be capitalism.

    You seem to be confusing capitalism with lawless chaos, which might explain your negative opinion of it.
    You seem to misunderstand my position. I have no problem at all with regulated capitalism, it's the best economic system we've come up with so far. It's the truly free market that needs to be avoided because capitalism, like any other efficient machine, needs a governor to keep it in check or it'll destroy itself.


    You're like the guys that object to gun control but don't want their neighbors owning working tanks. What you seem to want to talk about is the degree of government regulation and control over the market, not a truly free market system versus the regulated market that we have. I think you're the one that's confused, here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The function of government is to protect the person and property of the citizens so that capitalism can function properly. Without secure property rights, it would be unfettered chaos.

    Your comparison of capitalism to slavery is bunk.
    The function of government has nothing to do with capitalism. You were doing just fine up to that point. The function of government is to protect the person and property of the citizens - period.

    Unfettered capitalism is, indeed, nothing more than Might Makes Right. OTOH - properly controlled and regulated capitalism is a wonderful tool for growth and prosperity.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-14-14 at 03:45 PM.
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  6. #256
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    No, you did what you always do. You made an absurd blanket statement that gets refuted. Then you refine your original blanket statement to adjust for the part that was refuted. When that also is shown to be untrue, you further refine your statement to cover that rebuttal. It's an endless game of BS with you changing your tune every time you're shown to be wrong.

    That in and of itself wouldn't be so bad except the next thread will start over with the same absurd blanket statement and the process repeats itself. You have at least three pending threads where your position was shot down and you still insist on repeating the process.
    i will say it again for you, the federal government has no legislative authority over the people, unless a citizen violates a federal power of article 1 section 8, any laws pertaining to those powers congress can make, if a citizen commits an act against one of them.

    but congress has no blanket general authority to make laws over the people that have nothing to do with article 1 section 8, or treason.

    the executive branch of government can arrest if you are violating something IN article 1 section 8, or treason.

  7. #257
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    You seem to be down on the word "unfettered", but statists like yourself don't mind giving that kind of power to a centralized oppressor. Also, pretty much nobody here wants a market that's completely free. That's a trait of anarcho-capitalism, which very, very few here adhere to. Even the laissez-faire crowd, especially those well-versed in economics, know what market failures are, and the existence of such.

    It sounds like you're wanting federal totalitarianism to determine winners and losers. How you consider that to be better is beyond me.
    I use unfettered because an economist friend of mine used it to differentiate between a truly free market (no controls at all) and the free market system we currently have. Yes, he also used laissez-faire but his interpretation of that was some government control - much as you seem to have depicted it. Maybe that was a 70's thing.

    As for what Federalist is talking about - I suggest you read more of his posts in other threads. I'd say no public property at all, including streets and parks, is getting pretty far down the road to a completely free market.



    You obviously have no clue as to my position on economics or government. Just for starters, compared to me you're most likely pro gun control.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  8. #258
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I use unfettered because an economist friend of mine used it to differentiate between a truly free market (no controls at all) and the free market system we currently have. Yes, he also used laissez-faire but his interpretation of that was some government control - much as you seem to have depicted it. Maybe that was a 70's thing.

    As for what Federalist is talking about - I suggest you read more of his posts in other threads. I'd say no public property at all, including streets and parks, is getting pretty far down the road to a completely free market.



    You obviously have no clue as to my position on economics or government. Just for starters, compared to me you're most likely pro gun control.
    Oh, he's wrong too. You were just the larger of these two evils. Hold your head up high.

  9. #259
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You seem to misunderstand my position. I have no problem at all with regulated capitalism, it's the best economic system we've come up with so far. It's the truly free market that needs to be avoided because capitalism, like any other efficient machine, needs a governor to keep it in check or it'll destroy itself.
    Unfettered capitalism is an oxymoron. Captialism is a system in which the people's property rights and liberty are secure and protected. If people act in an "unfettered" way, then capitalism cannot exist. At that point all you have is lawless chaos, not a free market but a free-for-all. The fact that you refer to lawless chaos as capitalism shows that you don't actually understand what capitalism is.

    You're like the guys that object to gun control but don't want their neighbors owning working tanks. What you seem to want to talk about is the degree of government regulation and control over the market, not a truly free market system versus the regulated market that we have. I think you're the one that's confused, here.
    Yes, I concern myself with what types of laws are enacted. The sole, legitimate purpose of law is to protect person and property. I support any law that does so. I also oppose any law that punishes acts that do not result in a victim whose person or property has been assaulted or damaged, which is to say I oppose victimless crimes.

    The function of government has nothing to do with capitalism. You were doing just fine up to that point. The function of government is to protect the person and property of the citizens - period.
    Hey, that sounds exactly like something I would write. I agree with that point 110%

    Unfettered capitalism is, indeed, nothing more than Might Makes Right. OTOH - properly controlled and regulated capitalism is a wonderful tool for growth and prosperity.
    You keep using the term "unfettered capitalism" when it is impossible to have capitalism without the fetters that restrain people from violating the person or property of others. Without fetters, there is indeed lawlessness and might makess right, but to call that capitalism is wrong. Capitalism results only when people are restrained from violating the person and property of others and when people are free to engage in voluntary, mutually beneficial exchange. This is the exact opposite of unfettered behavior, and the exact opposite of might makes right.

    You are either confused as to what capitalism actually is, or you are being disingenuous.

    And, to relate this back to the OP, the law in question is a law that criminalizes paying someone below a fixed price. Paying someone below a fixed price does not assault or damage anyone's person or property. Therefore, based on your statement that the function of government is to protect the person and property of the citizen, a minimum wage law does not serve this function. And because it uses the force of government to punish a person who has not assaulted or harmed anyone's person or property, such a law is itself a violation of person and property. On those grounds, it must be opposed.

  10. #260
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Are you suggesting that a 40 year old man with two kids who quits a job making $55,000 per year in order to get a new job making $15,080 per year is mentally ill or physically handicapped?
    yes

    Same question, slightly different:

    Are you suggesting that a 40 year old man with two kids who is fired from a job making $55,000 per year, then gets a new job making $15,080 per year is mentally ill or physically handicapped?

    .
    re-read my comment. if you are 40 and STILL making minimum wage..... the implication here is that you started at minimum wage and are STILL there.

    I fully undersand that sometimes things happen that are beyond a person's control.
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