View Poll Results: Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot?

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Thread: Is minimum wage a lot?

  1. #231
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The Rule of Capitalism: Might Makes Right!

    So you can call it tyranny if you prefer. Either way, it's not a place where most of us would want to live.

    You're still wearing those green colored glasses.
    Nope. Might makes right is the progressive mantra, as in "you have something I want, so we'll get the government to take it from you by force."

    Capitalism is what happens in an environment of freedom and secure property rights, the exact opposite of slavery and tyranny. Capitalism is what happens when people voluntary trade for mutual benefit rather than initiate violence to take what they want.

  2. #232
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Nope. Might makes right is the progressive mantra, as in "you have something I want, so we'll get the government to take it from you by force."

    Capitalism is what happens in an environment of freedom and secure property rights, the exact opposite of slavery and tyranny. Capitalism is what happens when people voluntary trade for mutual benefit rather than initiate violence to take what they want.
    Physical force isn't the only form of violence, a mistake you and yours constantly make.
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  3. #233
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Physical force isn't the only form of violence, a mistake you and yours constantly make.
    You're saying that capitalism is based on violence, and you're full of it.

    Capitalism is what occurs when people are secure in their property rights and voluntarily cooperate for mutual benefit.

    Violence is what progressives do, which is using force to take from others and using force to punish people for victimless crimes.

  4. #234
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    You're saying that capitalism is based on violence, and you're full of it.
    There's those green colored glasses getting in the way, again. It's obvious to anyone who's willing to look that Might Makes Right in a purely capitalistic world - or don't you believe that money is power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Capitalism is what occurs when people are secure in their property rights and voluntarily cooperate for mutual benefit.
    Stand-alone capitalism doesn't provide for security of any kind unless you can buy it. Again, in unfettered capitalism, Might Makes Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Violence is what progressives do, which is using force to take from others and using force to punish people for victimless crimes.
    Victimless crimes - prostitution, drugs, etc - are one thing. Unfettered capitalism is another. You seem to be confusing the two.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  5. #235
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    There's those green colored glasses getting in the way, again. It's obvious to anyone who's willing to look that Might Makes Right in a purely capitalistic world - or don't you believe that money is power?
    Capitalism is what happens under a government that protects property rights and individual liberty. That is the exact opposite of might makes right.

    Might makes right is the philosophy of progressives who use the government to take what belongs to others and to punish them for victimless crimes.

    Stand-alone capitalism doesn't provide for security of any kind unless you can buy it. Again, in unfettered capitalism, Might Makes Right.
    No, that's chaos. Capitalism can only occur in an environment in which government protects property rights and individual liberty.

    Capitalism is what happens when people are secure in their property rights and undertake mutually beneficial trade. Secure property rights are the exact opposite of might makes right.

    Victimless crimes - prostitution, drugs, etc - are one thing. Unfettered capitalism is another. You seem to be confusing the two.
    The term unfettered capitalism is meaningless gibberish. Capitalism can only exist when property rights and individual liberty are secured by the government.

  6. #236
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Mental or physical issues.
    That's very observant. You seem to be very intelligent.

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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Other than for reasons entirely beyond one's control, no adult ought to be working a minimum wage job.
    How much money should an adult ought to be making? Follow up question: where can this rule be found?

  8. #238
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The term unfettered capitalism is meaningless gibberish. Capitalism can only exist when property rights and individual liberty are secured by the government.
    Apparently your English and/or internet skills are lacking so I'll help you out. 'Unfettered' means 'without restriction'. Unfettered capitalism is a (real) "free market" system, what you seem to want. Throwing government into the mix is obviously not a "free market".




    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Capitalism is what happens under a government that protects property rights and individual liberty. That is the exact opposite of might makes right.

    Might makes right is the philosophy of progressives who use the government to take what belongs to others and to punish them for victimless crimes.

    No, that's chaos. Capitalism can only occur in an environment in which government protects property rights and individual liberty.

    Capitalism is what happens when people are secure in their property rights and undertake mutually beneficial trade. Secure property rights are the exact opposite of might makes right.
    And this nebulous "government" to which you refer doesn't cost anything? Somehow I just can't see that. Someone, somewhere along the line, has to be paying for this "government" that theoretically protects us from the free marketeers. I just can't see people donating sufficient funds to keep it alive and healthy enough to fight the MegaCorps with (in some cases) their trillions of dollars.



    In addition, someone - most likely not the people that need protection by said government - are also paying said government to define what these nebulous "property rights" are.

    Should we still be paying Carver's heirs and assigns for each ounce of peanut butter sold? If not, then why can't Google copy parts of the Windows OS to produce a better OS?

    Is it OK for my neighbor to crap in his front yard, thereby creating a health hazard for me? It is, after all, his yard regardless of the fact that we share the same water table and breath the same air.

    Take off those green glasses and look at the real world for a change.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-14-14 at 10:17 AM.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #239
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    The amount of money a minimum wage pays is the wrong question. The right question is how much profit does and minimum wage job produce. If the return is modest, the wage is fair. If the return is great, there is room to raise the wage. It's all about maintaining a sustainable business model. If the model doesn't sustain it's labor cost, there is no business.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  10. #240
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    The amount of money a minimum wage pays is the wrong question. The right question is how much profit does and minimum wage job produce. If the return is modest, the wage is fair. If the return is great, there is room to raise the wage. It's all about maintaining a sustainable business model. If the model doesn't sustain it's labor cost, there is no business.
    What do you call "modest" and "great"? Nebulous terms to say the least.


    If all businesses are operating under the same rules then where's the problem? Those businesses with the better model will have more profit and thrive - just as it should be. Minimum wage isn't part of that issue as long as all businesses are subject to it.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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