View Poll Results: Assuming a 40 hour work week, is minimum wage a lot?

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Thread: Is minimum wage a lot?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    So what?

    All this means that you need to contribute more.

    The US will not accept your wish of Socialism.
    What do you mean I need to contribute more? I'm not arguing for socialism. I'm advocating for a managed capitalism.

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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    However, Jesus did not command the governments the responsibility to care for the poor and downtrodden but his followers personally.
    Perhaps Jesus didn't but Old Testament law forbade farmers for harvesting the corners of their field and the gleaning of their fields. This was supposed to be left for the poor and the illegal Mexicans. (I'm paraphrasing a bit but it's the same sentiment.) This is exactly the spirit of our current food stamp program. The whole theme of the prophets in the Old Testament was critical of Israel because of their unwillingness to care for the poor and to enforce crime. This is why most Jews are liberal leaning in their politics. They know that a society will result in violence and chaos when the poor are ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper
    Jesus also taught personal responsibility for one's choices in life.
    Really? The homeless guy that roamed around and took the ancient form of food stamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper
    The Scriptures tell us those not willing to work don't deserve to eat.
    My favorite misquoted scripture in the Bible. Read the whole chapter.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper
    And when the government forces them, it amounts to stealing.
    The government cannot steal what belongs to them. Our money supply is characterized as Federal Reserve Notes. Dollars must be paid back to the Federal Reserve. In the 1860's and the 1890's the Income Tax was deemed unconstitutional. It is no longer unconstitutional. The government doesn't give away Gold Certificates or Silver Certificates any more. They now loan Federal Reserve Notes to banks. The banks loan these Federal Reserve Notes to businesses and individuals. You have to pay these back. In the meantime, use them as currency. Keep them flowing around. You don't want to be caught holding the bag.

  3. #113
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What do you mean I need to contribute more? I'm not arguing for socialism. I'm advocating for a managed capitalism.
    And you can manage your new idea with your own money - there is a novel idea!

    Yes you are arguing for socialism - reallocating income.

    Usually this philosophy operates under dictatorships, as history has shown us.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Minimum wage should be nearly triple what it is today.

    No family should have a household income below $40,000 / yr.

    Current minimum wage for a single earner is about $15,000 / yr at a 40 hour workweek.
    So boom, minimum wage earns 40,000 a year for folding towels in a gym. Then what? Now everyone who was getting what a fry cook makes now will want their pay increased to reflect the work they do in comparison. "Poof" you have now made $40000 the new poverty level and while the market catches up with your new minimum wage, businesses fold and people lose their jobs while the rest try to rebuild and restructure in order to maintain a semblance of profit. This also means that retirees are somehow going to have to come to terms with $15 dollar burgers, $12 gas, and Social Security checks that would hardly cover the monthly electricity bill....
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  5. #115
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    I live in the SF Bay Area, 4 people making minimum wage could afford to live in a one bedroom apartment in a reasonably safe area if they had no car and all utilities included.

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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    And you can manage your new idea with your own money - there is a novel idea!

    Yes you are arguing for socialism - reallocating income.

    Usually this philosophy operates under dictatorships, as history has shown us.
    We already have income taxes. All I'm saying is bump the rate up for the top earners a bit more than it is now.

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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You are right that Jesus likes the joyful giver. It is up to every person to give and what he decides to give is between him and God.

    In America, we are unique because every citizen has the opportunity to wear two hats. First, everyone is an individual, and we have the ability to donate our time and money as individuals as you have said.

    The second hat we put on is as governors of this country. Through our votes, we actually steer the direction our government goes in. Therefore, we have a responsibility to think for ourselves as individuals, but at the same time we have a responsibility to think as stewards of America, because the choices we make at the polls are what shapes this country.

    As an individual, I give to charity.

    As a voter and an American, I feel I have a responsibility to my fellow Americans. I recognize that as charitable as Americans are, the poor are not getting enough to where they can truly take part in society. Therefore, I think redistribution at a government level in the form of taxes is in the best interest of the country.

    The government has the right to tax, it's not stealing. If it were, we wouldn't have been commanded to render unto caesar. The government is supposed to to what is best for the people, by the people. In so doing, we entrust it with the ability to levy taxes.
    We will have to agree to disagree on the redistribution of wealth. For no other reason but decency, I support a limited safety net for those who are destitute and it should be the state's responsibility which I believe all welfare programs should be handled/set up in every individual state and supported with the tax dollars of those within that state. Definitely nothing like the one we now have that is so bloated with programs at the federal level. I do not feel responsibility to redistribute wealth simply because others have less. But I do support getting government out of the way so the creation of jobs is stimulated where more people have an opportunity to earn their own wealth. Most of our poor are single moms. But when you add up all the bennies they get, they really aren't so poor. Today with the plethora of welfare programs a single mother with two kids can work at a part time job at minimum wage and collect benefits that exceed the wages of a married couple both working at median income with a couple of kids and do not qualify for government aid. When a government provides so many benefits it encourages poor choices with no personal responsibilities for those choices and takes away the incentive to be all one can. So providing more benefits isn't doing folks any favors. I don't think it is asking too much for every able bodied person to be earning their own way and take personal responsibility for their own choices in life.

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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by BretJ View Post
    So boom, minimum wage earns 40,000 a year for folding towels in a gym. Then what? Now everyone who was getting what a fry cook makes now will want their pay increased to reflect the work they do in comparison. "Poof" you have now made $40000 the new poverty level and while the market catches up with your new minimum wage, businesses fold and people lose their jobs while the rest try to rebuild and restructure in order to maintain a semblance of profit. This also means that retirees are somehow going to have to come to terms with $15 dollar burgers, $12 gas, and Social Security checks that would hardly cover the monthly electricity bill....
    This looks like a slippery slope argument to me. I'm not buying it. Just because you raise the minimum wage doesn't mean everyone else gets a raise from their employers.

  9. #119
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    But the level would be at a more humane place. There are people in this country living hand to mouth, literally. That isn't right.

    As to who gets to decide.... the government we elect has that right.
    You missed the point. If minimum wage were raised to that level, in a short amount of time, $40000 would only buy as much as minimum wage does now. You didn't do anything but score political votes and shift numbers. Why should someone folding towels in a gym earn as much as say, a network analyst or medical technician? You don't think they would demand they be paid at a level commensurate to their skill?
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  10. #120
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    Re: Is minimum wage a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We already have income taxes. All I'm saying is bump the rate up for the top earners a bit more than it is now.
    Same end - wrong again.

    You want it, you fund it.

    I'll bet that you could even start your own website where rich folks can donate to others.

    Let me know how that goes, or are you too lazy to do that also?

    Leave the rest of us out of your games.
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