Should welfare recipients be allowed to vote?[W:84]

Phys251 said:

Wow, you're getting pretty emotional about this. Let's just look at this from a logical point-of-view, okay? From here, we see that in the year 2011:

-15% of Americans lived in poverty. Broken down by ethnicity, we have:
-12.2% of Asian Americans;
-25.3% of Hispanics;
-26.7% of African Americans;
live in poverty. So we clearly see that poverty disproportionately affects black and brown Americans.

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yet they ignore advice that could change this:

Bill Cosby - Video on NBCNews.com

Kreton said:

I was flipping around the radio yesterday and came across a guy named Michael Savage. He was pretty excited and screaming about "Why should those on welfare be allowed to vote". His point is simply that they are not paying taxes or making this country better so why should they have a say. Use the right to vote to encourage those lazy leeches to get off of their asses and get a job.

I had heard of this guy but I don't think I've ever listened to him before. I have heard Rush and Hannity before but this guy seemed extreme even in comparison to those guys. Who in their right mind would really suggest that the poor should not be allowed to vote. Taking power away from people and handing it solely to the upper classes. And he was talking about this should be one of the platforms of the Republican party.

What do you think?

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This idea, like a lot of wacky, un-democratic, ideas has some support.

But it's not going to happen in the USA.

Anyone who supports this idea should lose their right to vote (Sounds fair to me.).




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

shrubnose said:

This idea, like a lot of wacky, un-democratic, ideas has some support.

But it's not going to happen in the USA.

Anyone who supports this idea should lose their right to vote (Sounds fair to me.).




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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there is nothing democratic about taking money from one class to support another

Rocketman said:

there is nothing democratic about taking money from one class to support another

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There is also nothing democratic about taking away some people's right to vote.

americanwoman said:

Yes, they have the right to vote.


Funny enough, most older Americans are on medicaire and social security and tend to vote republican.

Some people don't really think about things before they start to rant.

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They really start thinking after some of the things that they rant for actually happen and they realize that they've shot themselves in the foot.

shrubnose said:

There is also nothing democratic about taking away some people's right to vote.

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are taking money from one class to support another i.e. ACA

Peter King said:

What I think? I think this guy Savage is an idiot. Everybody pays taxes in the USA and even if they did not pay taxes they should still be allowed to vote.

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Even children?

Rocketman said:

are taking money from one class to support another i.e. ACA

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The ACA is settled law in the USA and it is not going to go away.

Deal with it.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

shrubnose said:

The ACA is settled law in the USA and it is not going to go away.

Deal with it.



"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

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It will go away as it will not be sustainable no matter how much money is wasted on it. Obama is a POS as is Pelosi, Reid, and anyone else that supports it.

Rocketman said:

It will go away as it will not be sustainable no matter how much money is wasted on it. Obama is a POS as is Pelosi, Reid, and anyone else that supports it.

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It will not go away, but eventually it will be replaced by single-payer insurance which you will probably like even less.

Wait and see.

Tigger said:

Yes it is her fault. Obviously she has over-educated herself for the sort of work she is looking to do.

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Yeah...this doesn't make any sense at all. At this point, it's pretty clear your position on this really isn't worth my time anymore.

Denying anyone the right to vote goes against everything we stand for. Now, I am all for photo ID for verification purposes, and would hope that voters make an informed decision, but aside from that, no restrictions.

Slyfox696 said:

Yeah...this doesn't make any sense at all. At this point, it's pretty clear your position on this really isn't worth my time anymore.

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If she can't find a job because (as you said yourself), she was "overqualified" due to her Master's Degree, then maybe she shouldn't have wasted the time/money on that degree. Then again in my mind a woman wastes time/money getting ANY degree, since her place isn't in the work force that requires a degree to begin with.

Tigger said:

If she can't find a job because (as you said yourself), she was "overqualified" due to her Master's Degree, then maybe she shouldn't have wasted the time/money on that degree.

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I'm sure if she had known in advance jobs would purposefully not hire her because she was educated, she would have rethought it. But it's not her fault society is telling her she needs to be uneducated if she wants a job, that's society's fault for being so threatened by an educated person.

Which goes back to my original position of society kicking people in the teeth.

Then again in my mind a woman wastes time/money getting ANY degree, since her place isn't in the work force that requires a degree to begin with.

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And, once again, your position in this thread makes it clear responding to your position is a waste of time.

Slyfox696 said:

I'm sure if she had known in advance jobs would purposefully not hire her because she was educated, she would have rethought it. But it's not her fault society is telling her she needs to be uneducated if she wants a job, that's society's fault for being so threatened by an educated person.

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Not educated, OVER-educated. It's not society's fault at all. Nobody is going to pay her a Master's Degree salary to do high school graduate level work. When I chose my career, I knew that the average individual in my field had a high school diploma or a trade school certificate. I took a chance and got my Associates Degree in the field, knowing that it MIGHT make it considerably more difficult to get a job because I would want more money. Thankfully I got lucky.... just as I graduated the standards in the field moved up to a Post-High School Trade School Certification or Associates Degree, which put me right on the front edge of the wave of increasing salaries. Your girlfriend apparently isn't as lucky.

MaggieD said:

Which goes back to my original position of society kicking people in the teeth.

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Not at all. Why should an employer pay her a Master's Degree salary if she isn't doing Master's level work?

MaggieD said:

And, once again, your position in this thread makes it clear responding to your position is a waste of time.

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Responding to me on any topic in any thread is a waste of time, but people still seem to do it.

shrubnose said:

It will not go away, but eventually it will be replaced by single-payer insurance which you will probably like even less.

Wait and see.

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nope, not without an uprising first

Tigger said:

Not educated, OVER-educated. It's not society's fault at all. Nobody is going to pay her a Master's Degree salary to do high school graduate level work.

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She wasn't asking for master's degree salary, she was asking for the same wage they were offering anyone else. That is definitely society's fault.

Your girlfriend apparently isn't as lucky.

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It's nothing to do with luck and a lot more to do with society. Jobs are scarce, labor is in abundance, she comes from a poor family and has loan payments kicking in soon. She applied for jobs related to her degree and many many more not related to her degree. She was told time and again she was over-qualified, even though wages had nothing to do with it.

Not at all. Why should an employer pay her a Master's Degree salary if she isn't doing Master's level work?

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Why would an employer not hire her when she was asking for no benefits related to her Master's degree? She wasn't asking for master's degree level salary, she wasn't even asking for salary. She was asking for a job, any job, which could pay bills.

Responding to me on any topic in any thread is a waste of time, but people still seem to do it.

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This post of yours at least exposed your misunderstanding of the situation and what she was going for. And I can understand where you would think that an employer would not give elevated salary, but she wasn't asking for it. Furthermore, I would argue that's just another limitation of today's society when there aren't jobs for those with degrees in higher levels of education.

No matter how you want to look at it, most people who are on welfare don't want to be on welfare and a great number of them are there for reasons outside of their control.

Rocketman said:

nope, not without an uprising first

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There will be no uprising.

Wait and see.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP

Cardinal said:

The founders imposed a lot of restrictions on who could and couldn't vote. Although done piecemeal, we've fortunately moved past that

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Correct, and it was a long hard fight.

A lot of good people had to give their lives for us to get to this point and I don't believe that we are ever going back no matter what a few people on the far right think.




I could be wrong but I don't believe that the U.S. Supreme Court is going to let anyone's vote be taken away because they received a little assistance from the government.

Let's wait and see what happens or doesn't happen.

Slyfox696 said:

She wasn't asking for master's degree salary, she was asking for the same wage they were offering anyone else. That is definitely society's fault.

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Alright, and when the economy starts to turn around and something in her field, at her Master's Degree level (and pay) opens up, is she going to stay there, or is she going to jump ship for the new opportunity.

Slyfox696 said:

It's nothing to do with luck and a lot more to do with society. Jobs are scarce, labor is in abundance, she comes from a poor family and has loan payments kicking in soon. She applied for jobs related to her degree and many many more not related to her degree. She was told time and again she was over-qualified, even though wages had nothing to do with it.

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Again, it has to do with employee retention. As soon as things turn around she'll be gone for greener pastures and they'll have to train her replacement. I graduated in 1994, not exactly the best economy in American history and had some trouble finding a temporary job until I located a permanent one for the same reason.

Slyfox696 said:

Why would an employer not hire her when she was asking for no benefits related to her Master's degree? She wasn't asking for master's degree level salary, she wasn't even asking for salary. She was asking for a job, any job, which could pay bills.

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Again, because they don't want to train her replacement 6 months down the road when she finds a job she really wants. Especially when there are people walking through the door who the company knows will be there for a LONG time because they don't have any other options.

Slyfox696 said:

This post of yours at least exposed your misunderstanding of the situation and what she was going for. And I can understand where you would think that an employer would not give elevated salary, but she wasn't asking for it. Furthermore, I would argue that's just another limitation of today's society when there aren't jobs for those with degrees in higher levels of education.

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She was over-educated the moment she walked into a college due to her gender. Then she went and trumped it by wasting her time getting a Master's degree. I say that as someone with a brother and s-i-l who both have PhD's (Pile it Higher and Deeper) in microbiology. They're so over-educated the only thing they're qualified to do is stay in the university system and help spit out more of their own kind.

Slyfox696 said:

No matter how you want to look at it, most people who are on welfare don't want to be on welfare and a great number of them are there for reasons outside of their control.

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LOL. Most people on welfare are there because they made ****ty-ass decisions in their youth and now they're paying for it. GOOD. It's what they deserve. I say that as someone whose fiance's family almost totally subsists on welfare.

Tigger said:

Not educated, OVER-educated. It's not society's fault at all. Nobody is going to pay her a Master's Degree salary to do high school graduate level work. When I chose my career, I knew that the average individual in my field had a high school diploma or a trade school certificate. I took a chance and got my Associates Degree in the field, knowing that it MIGHT make it considerably more difficult to get a job because I would want more money. Thankfully I got lucky.... just as I graduated the standards in the field moved up to a Post-High School Trade School Certification or Associates Degree, which put me right on the front edge of the wave of increasing salaries. Your girlfriend apparently isn't as lucky. Not at all. Why should an employer pay her a Master's Degree salary if she isn't doing Master's level work.

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First off an AA degree in ANY field isn't taking a risk on being considered over educated, don't fool yourself. I have heard the mediocre middle of the pack rats carry on about over educated. Seems more sour grapes than reality. Fact is many firms if they are hiring would prefer an over educated one than one they have to educate- that would be an AA degree applicant.

The IT field is a prefect example of the over-educated, need to retrain folks. once you leave the wire guys behind and enter the software side you find turnover is pretty high, even at the best of times. those gaining a bit of experience do look for the next step up and quite often that is in another company. many companies would prefer an 'over educated' employee who can work to their max potential far quicker than an under educated employee who has to be taught both the system and the peculiar protocols of the company.

What many mediocre middle of the pack rats have never seen, mostly because they are so replaceable, is an employment contract for a set wage and period of time. gains both parties peace of mind. I'd say it costs far more to train a high school graduate to be a grunt for Uncle Sam than a Master's Degree applicant for most any job requiring a 4 year college degree.

If a mediocre middle of the pack rat ever looked about they would see millions of people with massive experience and education doing work at a pay grade or two below what they could get in a perfect world. Their 'over education' was no hindrance, they just preferred to stay with a certain company, location, or moved to a new location as part of the spousal equiv, advancing in their career.

it used to be the 'American way'- be all you can be, but it seems equally American to stay in the herd as a middle of the pack rat and scoff at anyone striving to do more than stay with the herd.

shrubnose said:

There will be no uprising.

Wait and see.


"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP

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you do the same, Obamacare makes King George's taxes on the colonies laughable

Tigger said:

Alright, and when the economy starts to turn around and something in her field, at her Master's Degree level (and pay) opens up, is she going to stay there, or is she going to jump ship for the new opportunity.

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It doesn't matter, because without people in her life right now helping her, she'd have to receive government assistance, through absolutely no fault or mistake of her own.

Again, it has to do with employee retention. As soon as things turn around she'll be gone for greener pastures

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Irrelevant to the fact she shouldn't be denied the right to vote simply because society has made it impossible for her to live without help.

Again, because they don't want to train her replacement 6 months down the road when she finds a job she really wants.

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If they would pay her enough for her to live there, she'd stay. Again, society failed her, not the other way around.

She was over-educated the moment she walked into a college due to her gender.

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Your sexist comment is rather insulting.

americanwoman said:

Yes, they have the right to vote.


Funny enough, most older Americans are on medicaire and social security and tend to vote republican. Some people don't really think about things before they start to rant.

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It's funny because it could back fire on conservatives in many ways. You point out that many older, retired people vote GOP, but so do white conservatives in the poorest southern states. Alabama and Mississippi for example. Those states are known for being poor and blood red. In addition to southern, white food stamp and welfare recipients, overall more white people are on welfare than any other racial group. I am not sure if the vast majority of them live in the south, but it would be funny if they did. :lol:

Tigger said:

She was over-educated the moment she walked into a college due to her gender. Then she went and trumped it by wasting her time getting a Master's degree. I say that as someone with a brother and s-i-l who both have PhD's (Pile it Higher and Deeper) in microbiology. They're so over-educated the only thing they're qualified to do is stay in the university system and help spit out more of their own kind.

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there is no such thing as overeducated. those who understand the mind know that maximizing brain development is as important or more important than physical fitness. i applaud your family members for getting degrees in micro. it's a fascinating field.

as for your comment on gender, it is laughable, and is only worthy of complete dismissal.

Marie Curie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 50 Most Important Women in Science | DiscoverMagazine.com

a Y chromosome was not required.